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Old 11-18-2009, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Far Northeast, D.C. and Montgomery County, MD
220 posts, read 417,020 times
Reputation: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpterp View Post
I'm not sure, Metrobus seems to run pretty late. Again "The Bus" is a very small service compared to RideOn or Farifax Connector that just serves as a comploment to Metrobus. Remember Montgomery county's population extends well into the county far beyond the Metro stations, plus there's a huge gap between the Red Line branches, and Metrobuses are more or run between stations, so RideOn is neccesary to fill these large numbers of unserved communities. PG County is relatively very narrow, and has 4 Metro branches instead of just 2 so most of the poplulation lies within the range of Metrobus routes, so "The Bus" isn't all that neccesary.
i understand what your saying, but southern PG county isn't really served that well in my opinion. seems like Fort Washington, Friendly, Acookeek, and Brandywine are left out. Well there are a few rush hour only metrobuses that go out Indian Head in Charles Co. via Ft. Washington, Acookeek and Friendly but I remember when buses used to operate more fequently in those areas in the 90's and early 00's.

Overall i think PG has more of a rural transportation system versus Montgomery is more urban.
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:20 PM
 
1,567 posts, read 2,248,446 times
Reputation: 1372
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14thandYou View Post
...and the first streetcar line goes between two places where nobody lives. Awesome!
True. That's the reason why I believe that the "streetcar" idea will have a rough start, especially since it has no links to any Metro stops, particularly the H St streetcar line. What they should have done from the start (and what I believe is planned in the main future) is to connect it to Minnesota Avenue and Union Station or at least the New York Avenue station. If this happens, it could really quicken the gentrification of the H Street neighborhoods and bring business opportunities to those places.

The Anacostia streetcar line will be almost useless until they connect it to Minnesota Ave and Benning Road stations, alleviating space to Metrorail and giving local people in those communities a quicker way to get through the deep part of Southeast. Sorry if this also sounds classist, but I would also imagine that many people who live in Capitol Hill would be really supportive of this line in order to reroute some of the more lower-class individuals and not to habe them go through their neighborhoods.



As for heavy rail, here's how I would plan out metro expansion:

-Blue Line Southwest bound: Expand it from Springfield to Woodbridge, vis stops in Newington, Lorton, Woodbridge itself, and Daly City around Potomac Mills.
-Blue Line Eastbound: An extension to Upper Marlboro in the distant future, and possibly an extension through the coastal towns of Calvert to Lexington Park in the very distant future (if sprawl ever gets that bad), but by that time I feel as if DC metro/MARC should have more of a commuter-based rail service to serve those areas.
-Also, reroute the Blue Line to go along Benning Rd in NE, Florida Ave, R St NW, Rhode Island Ave, New Hampshire Ave, M St, and Finally rejoin in Rosslyn. Stops would include Oklahoma Ave, the Intersection of H St/Bladensburg Rd/Maryland Ave, West Virginia Ave, connect with New York Ave (Red), Truxton Circle @ Florida/1st/R Sts, connect with Shaw-Howard Univ (Green), Logan Circle, connect with Dupont Circle (Red), the intersection of N.H. Ave, and M St, and (finally) a Georgetown station @ M St and Wisconsin Ave.

-Red Eastbound: Expand to Olney, via stops at Aspen Hill, Norbeck-Rossmoor, and Olney, all along Georgia Ave.
-Red Westbound: Expand to (at least) Germantown, with stops at Gaithersburg, Germantown, and a stop at Clarksburg on I-270, feeding in and reliving the direct traffic from Outer Montgomery and Frederick. An extension to Frederick would definitely be planned in the distant future.

-Green Southbound: Expand to Waldorf via Andres AFB, the new Westphalia project, Clinton, and Waldorf. La Plata could be a future station extension.
-Green Northbound: Expand to BWI, via Beltsville, the new Konterra project, Laurel, Fort Meade, Arundel Mills, and Glen Burnie. Pulling a few strings of political red-tape, it could easily see an extension to Downtown Baltimore.

-Orange Eastbound: Expand to Bowie via Seabrook, Glen Dale, and Bowie Town Center. This could be extended to Annapolis in the distant future.
-Orange Westbound: Expand to (at least) Manassas via stops @ Chain Bridge/I-66, Fair Oaks Mall/Rt 50, Sully Rd/Centreville, then it veers off I-66 and stops at Bull Run and Downtown Manassas. This could be extended to Haymarket in the distant future and Front Royal in the very distant future when sprawl gets that bad, but would be better off served by a commuter rail line.

-Yellow Line Southbound: Expands to Ft Belvoir via stops at Belle Haven, Hybla Valley, Mt Vernon, Ft Belvoir, and intersects with Lorton (Blue)
-Yellow Line Northbound: Expand it to Columbia, MD, via veering it off at Georgia Ave/Petworth, and have it go through Georgia Ave via stops at Sherman Park, Brightwood (via Missouri Ave/Military Rd), Walter Reed Army Medical Center, intersect with Silver Spring (Red), then veer off to Rt. 29 and make stops in Sligo Creek Pkwy, University Blvd, White Oak-Naval Surface Warfare Center, Cherry Hill Rd, Burtonsville, Patuxent Fwy, and finally a stop near the Mall in Columbia on Columbia Pike with easy pedestrian access to the mall. This could be extended to Ellicott City in the distant future.

Silver Line Westbound: Could be extend to Leesburg via stops at Belmont Ridge Road and Downtown Leesburg in the distant future. Growth plans would have to be foreseen to determine more future stops.

I also have a proposed beltway-parallel Heavy Rail Line that would connect most of the terminals and improve suburb-to-suburb transit, but I'll save that for another time.....



P.S. I always notice how the transit blog greatergreaterwashington always has these "fantasy rail" maps which depicts future potential rail lines. If anyone knows the software or program where anyone make their own "fantasy rail map," I'd really appreciate it, seeing that I sort of have a comprehensive plan on how to expand metro effectively.

Last edited by Do a Barrel Roll; 11-19-2009 at 01:53 PM..
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Old 11-19-2009, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Rockville, MD
3,548 posts, read 4,666,593 times
Reputation: 1273
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fairfaxian View Post
P.S. I always notice how the transit blog greatergreaterwashington always has these "fantasy rail" maps which depicts future potential rail lines. If anyone knows the software or program where anyone make their own "fantasy rail map," I'd really appreciate it, seeing that I sort of have a comprehensive plan on how to expand metro effectively.
PM me--I know David Alpert, who runs GreaterGreater. I can either find out what he's using, or put you in touch with him directly.
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Old 11-20-2009, 11:56 AM
 
Location: H street NE
188 posts, read 424,028 times
Reputation: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCnative1990 View Post
if you go to H street/Benning Rd in NE you can see the tracks already layed down in the pavement. but I think its a waste of money. I meanwho needs a streetcar that goes from Union Station to Oklahoma ave. The X2 already had that route covered. Pretty much every possible logical route I can think of is already served by a bus route. I just dont see how this is gonna work out. Drivers in this area are already too aggresive. I dont think people are going to have patience to give a right away to streetcars, what worked in DC back in the 60's and before most definitely wont work today. If you ask me, an elevated train would have been better.
First of all, if you've ever ridden the X2, you'd know that it is absolutely overloaded pretty much any time of day. I've had two X2's pass me completely full within a span of 5 minutes. One of the reasons that its so overloaded is because its one of the only bus lines that goes downtown from that area of H/Benning. The benefit of streetcars is much higher capacity and fewer stops, making it faster and easier for more people to get downtown. People who only want to go a few blocks can use the X2 (which stops way too often in my opinion)

How do you think an elevated train would be better? It would be much more expensive and is H really ever trafficked enough to support that? Also, where would you put it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fairfaxian View Post
True. That's the reason why I believe that the "streetcar" idea will have a rough start, especially since it has no links to any Metro stops, particularly the H St streetcar line. What they should have done from the start (and what I believe is planned in the main future) is to connect it to Minnesota Avenue and Union Station or at least the New York Avenue station. If this happens, it could really quicken the gentrification of the H Street neighborhoods and bring business opportunities to those places.

The Anacostia streetcar line will be almost useless until they connect it to Minnesota Ave and Benning Road stations, alleviating space to Metrorail and giving local people in those communities a quicker way to get through the deep part of Southeast. Sorry if this also sounds classist, but I would also imagine that many people who live in Capitol Hill would be really supportive of this line in order to reroute some of the more lower-class individuals and not to habe them go through their neighborhoods.
The H street streetcar will have stops at Minnesota Ave Station, Union Station and Chinatown, and if DDOT gets their way, any stations along H/K downtown. No one seems to remember that there is an entrance to Union Station on H. If you look at the Noma BID development map there is a plan to completely remodel the Hopscotch Bridge (H over the tracks), including better pedestrian access, office buildings built over the train tracks and a new greyhound station adjacent to the Union parking garage and Union itself.

In all honesty (and I've spoken with DDOT employees about this), the main reason for streetcars is economic development. There are many potential benefits including right of way at traffic lights (which isn't definite yet but certainly in the works), increased capacity and quicker service. For some reason people also will ride a railed form of public transit when they wouldn't ride a bus. Dunno why. Just look at Portland for a good example of that tho.

You do sound classist and I'm not entirely sure how the H streetcar would reroute anything, it would basically replace the X2. If you're thinking of the 96... that's being looked at to be replaced by a streetcar as well.

...and the Anacostia Streetcar line was a dumb idea. It's not going to be built for a while tho. I think I heard no construction for another few years. H will be up and running much sooner.


I love public transit!
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Downtown LA
603 posts, read 233,815 times
Reputation: 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellyofthebeast View Post
...and the Anacostia Streetcar line was a dumb idea. It's not going to be built for a while tho. I think I heard no construction for another few years. H will be up and running much sooner
You have it backwards. Last time Gabe Klein (DDOT Director) spoke about this, he said that Anacostia will be done in 2012, with H Street hopefully done by the end of that year or early 2013. Currently, they're building the line, overhead wires, turnarounds, and everything else they need for the Anacostia line. For the H Street line however, they're only laying the tracks right now. They haven't even planning where the turnarounds will be, or even how they're going to get around the city's ban on overhead wires within the "L'Enfant City". The only reason they're laying the tracks so prematurely is because DDOT is tearing up and redoing H Street anyway, so they figured it would be more efficient to lay the tracks down at the same time, rather than tear the street up twice. Sorry to burst any bubbles...if I had it my way the H Street line would be done tomorrow :/

Chris
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Last edited by Yac; 11-23-2009 at 02:15 AM..
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Rockville, MD
3,548 posts, read 4,666,593 times
Reputation: 1273
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellyofthebeast View Post
...and the Anacostia Streetcar line was a dumb idea. It's not going to be built for a while tho. I think I heard no construction for another few years. H will be up and running much sooner.
Actually, I think you've heard wrong. The Anacostia streetcar will be the first to be built, H Street is several years off. They're laying the tracks there now as part of the streetscape project, but that doesn't mean that the streetcars themselves are due to arrive. They haven't even determined how they are going to be powered yet, since overhead power lines are forbidden in the original L'Enfant city.
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Old 11-20-2009, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
13,080 posts, read 13,572,641 times
Reputation: 4810
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCnative1990 View Post
if you go to H street/Benning Rd in NE you can see the tracks already layed down in the pavement. but I think its a waste of money. I meanwho needs a streetcar that goes from Union Station to Oklahoma ave. The X2 already had that route covered. Pretty much every possible logical route I can think of is already served by a bus route. I just dont see how this is gonna work out. Drivers in this area are already too aggresive. I dont think people are going to have patience to give a right away to streetcars, what worked in DC back in the 60's and before most definitely wont work today. If you ask me, an elevated train would have been better.

Yeah but nearly everyone that rides the X2 hates that bus. I'm one of them. I'd rather ride the light rail when it comes. I do agree that it probably should have been elevated. Your concerns are very similar to Houstonians are going through with their system. We shall see.
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Old 11-20-2009, 08:36 PM
 
4,806 posts, read 10,883,273 times
Reputation: 4543
I ride the X2 and I don't hate it. It takes me from the steps of the White House to the best coffee shop in town. What more do you need?
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Old 11-21-2009, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
1,289 posts, read 2,491,216 times
Reputation: 559
I agree that it's going to cause problems being a normal street car in the mix of traffic. Recently I was training with Metro at work for when we have fire or ems calls to a station.(They have all of us firefighters do it) The instructor who is a Metro Transit policeman was talking about the light rail. He said that it's absolutely hated by the fire and police departments of the cities that already have them. They are apparently a magnet for disaster. I guess those cities CONSTANTLY have car accidents involving their streetcars.
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Old 11-21-2009, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
13,080 posts, read 13,572,641 times
Reputation: 4810
Quote:
Originally Posted by kodaka View Post
I ride the X2 and I don't hate it. It takes me from the steps of the White House to the best coffee shop in town. What more do you need?
I didn't say all. I said nearly. It's basically the bus regardless though. It's psychological. People would rather ride trains of any sort than the something that runs on rubber tires and not to mention, it has to fight the same traffic as cars.
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