no controversy intended (Seattle, Spokane, Vancouver: how much, house, unemployment)

[Xenobion]

Sorry for my bluntness in my previous post and perhaps in this post as well. What you are experiencing in California with illegal immigrants Washingtonians are experiencing with Californians. Most Californians who move here have twice the equity in their house in California and make the move buying twice the house in Washington driving up housing prices. While one action is illegal and this one is legal Washingtonians are seeing their state turn into California. In my honest stereotyping of Californians they are a different breed of people with erratic driving skills and an arrogant (and plastic if you will) personality of materialism. They drive SUVs because they moved to Washington and its fearsome weather. We can only hope they don't turn the state into what they did in Aspen, CO or Lake Tahoe, NV.

California's prop 13 to only adjust property taxes based off of inflation is what is perpetuating this. The older folk are not selling their houses and using the equity in them to become slum lords. Thank God Washington has an adjustable property tax to keep this problem in control. Bellevue is the only city in Washington that reminds me of California and thank goodness its only that.

I hope you enjoyed my sardonic post

[blue pekoe]

I understand your frustrations about the more negative aspects of California culture. It's one of the things I'm hoping to get away from as well, because I don't enjoy the prentiousness and the bad driving either. Sometimes, I think that Hollywood and the whole desire to "be seen" has given a lot people here a "plastic" quality. But, that's not the case with all of us. Some of us are just looking for a decent place to call home...As far as the housing situation here is concerned, one of the issues pushing people (me) out is that zoning laws have been largely ignored. This has turned middle-class neighborhoods into less desirable areas as single family residences are used to house a lot more people than originally intended. There are a lot more gangs here; and, crime is no longer relegated to just a few "bad areas." You practically have to buy a million-dollar house (and, maybe even live in a gated community) to live in a really safe area...I think a lot of us see the handwriting on the wall. I know I do. I don't think a week goes by that I don't tell someone how sick I am of living here.

[Xenobion]

I say all this in jest. A lot of my friends are NorCal types and fit in perfectly. But when I was on the train down to Santa Barbara I was in a conversation with this woman who lived in Monticeito and she wouldn't stop talking about how she was a Designer and an Artist and talk so tangentially about herself I just sat there and nodded for 10 minutes as she was so boring that I just didn't want to talk to her. Californians on face I believe mean very well and fit somewhat with the west coast laid back mentality but they have come to Washington in droves and Washingtonians joke that Global Warming is a Californian Conspiracy to take over Oregon and Washington in the coming decades. I'd say its pretty common for smaller regional states to have a negative attitude toward the bigger states. Being in Vermont you always have that negative look of New Yorkers invading the state to look at the foliage. I think everywhere over the country people are feeling the middle class squeeze and maybe its just accentuated in places like California.

[seahawksweetie]

You know what is sort of disheartening is that we are planning to move to Seattle from CA. Yet, we don't own a home, so therefore we aren't using any equity to drive up prices in WA...but somehow we all get lumped into the same thought process.

I am just tired of palm trees, boring sunny weather and the whole CA culture in general.

Of course I'm not originally from CA. I was born and raised in Oklahoma.

Anyway, it's just kind of depressing that I get the impression that the people in WA will think we are there to drive up their home prices, when we don't even own a home to begin with.

Just my two cents....off my soap box now

Oh, and btw, everyone have a great Thanksgiving tomorrow!

[Xenobion]

This is all stereotyping and mostly by me frankly in this thread. I have friends from Oregon that say the exact same thing. Does this hate really exist on the level of illegal immigrants in California? No. But people will joke about Californians as a breed of people in fancy cars, talking on their cell phones, while going to a plastic surgery consultation. Its pretty easy to pick out a Southern Californian in the way they dress and a couple other character traits as well. So much that I felt out of place when I went to Santa Barbara this month and I overheard someone saying, "Tourists wearing shorts and flipflops in November?," despite the fact it was 70 degrees out. Anyways read this article it give a good perspective of why Northwesterners dislike Californians.

History of Washington State and the Pacific Northwest (http://www.washington.edu/uwired/outreach/cspn/Website/Course%20Index/Lessons/1/Lesson%20One.html - broken link)

[magrack]

Originally Posted by Xenobion

This is all stereotyping and mostly by me frankly in this thread. I have friends from Oregon that say the exact same thing. Does this hate really exist on the level of illegal immigrants in California? No. But people will joke about Californians as a breed of people in fancy cars, talking on their cell phones, while going to a plastic surgery consultation. Its pretty easy to pick out a Southern Californian in the way they dress and a couple other character traits as well. So much that I felt out of place when I went to Santa Barbara this month and I overheard someone saying, "Tourists wearing shorts and flipflops in November?," despite the fact it was 70 degrees out. Anyways read this article it give a good perspective of why Northwesterners dislike Californians.

History of Washington State and the Pacific Northwest (http://www.washington.edu/uwired/outreach/cspn/Website/Course%20Index/Lessons/1/Lesson%20One.html - broken link)

Great read at the link.

[NCWmark]

There can be a somewhat negative reaction to Californians here in Washington State, and it does mostly come from the housing issue, but this is not an isolated case. I lived for a few years post-college in western Montana, and over there it was the "obnoxious Seattle people" moving in and driving up the housing costs. My only real experience is the Californians in Washington and Washingtonians in Montana situations, but I assume this mindset is common around the entire country to a certain degree. I do know that there is a similar feeling among Alaskans and anyone moving up from the lower 48 too. I think to a certain extent it is natural.

Back to the issue of illegal immigrants, all of my experience comes from living on the east side (more agricultural) of Washington. It seems to me that the general feelings of those in Eastern Washington is more frustration with the laws and the system than with the illegal immigrants themselves. Most people in Easter Washington have a medium to high-level respect for the work ethics held by the illegal immigrants that are attracted by the fruit picking industry, though there are other social issues associated with the current status of immigration that they have problems with.

Just my 2 cents.

[ness]

In my opinion, as a Native Californian who also spends a lot of time in WA, the super plastic-rich-annoying Californians are NOT the same people that are moving to WA. You'd probably have a hard time convincing them to move even to a different zip code, even though they live in a crime-infested, crowded, smoggy mess. So....I think many of the Californians who are relocating to WA are in a similar position to the friends I've had move there. They wanted a better life to start a family. Housing and everything else is sooo expensive in Cali. that if the wanted the American Dream of 2 kids, a dog, a house, and a yard they'd have to win the lottery or move. I own a house here in Cali., but even with our equity its not like we'd be living it up in WA. If we sold our house, we'd be able to afford a $350,000-$400,000 house. There are plenty of Seattle natives I'm sure spending way more for a house....so I'm not sure the Californians driving up home prices is all that valid in every case. In fact, many Californians cannot afford to buy anything in Cali. and that's why they move to WA.

Just a little diff. point of view from someone who knows about 6 couples who have relocating from Cali. to WA.

[mthomson]

Having grown up in Utah, gone to college in Santa Barbara, and now living in Gig Harbor for the past 11 years, I can speak with authority. All Utahns (yes, we are Utahns) have 5 wives, all Californians have had at least 3 plastic surgery, and all Washingtonians hug trees while drinking their Starbucks and refusing to wash our hair.
Obviously, I am a very odd mix.
My wife is from Cal, my inlaws who are moving here are from Cal, I lived in Cal for 4 years, and we're welcomed here. People are people everywhere; some are friendly, some aren't.
Illegal immigration is a personal issue, not a state wide issue. Our percentage of illegal immigrants is much lower than Cals I would guess. I'm sure it's higher in the eastern part of WA, where there is more farming and manual labor. I wouldn't avoid moving to a place because of perceived stereo types!

[blue pekoe]

Ness, I think (and hope) you're probably right.

I thought I would share a few facts about CA to give you a sense of what we're facing here and why so many of us are looking for greener pastures:

The State of California has a population of a little over 40 million (and growing). This means its population surpasses the entire country of Cananda. There are more people in L.A. county than than are in the entire states of MT, OR, UT, respectively.

Ninety percent of CA households cannot afford a median-priced home.

There are more communicable diseases here than in any other part of the nation.

Fifty percent of the state budget is spent on "education," mostly building new schools.

CA has the highest rate of lung cancer than any other state.

Our prisons are so over-crowded that the Govenator announced 44,000 inmates would have to be released early in the coming year.

I suspect that at least a few of these facts may be encouraging people to leave. The first three are enough to motivate me. I'm posting this so that people who see us Californians as nasty people moving to your state in order to inflate home prices and cause traffic accidents might realize that some of us are moving to escape a quagmire that only seems to be getting worse. And, ultimately, if you don't want us moving to your state, do something to address some of the issues we're facing.