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Old 11-12-2013, 02:18 PM
 
Location: God's Country
614 posts, read 882,552 times
Reputation: 557

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Greater good? Why don't we just pay for the government to insert one of those machines in all of our cars that doesn't allow operation if alcohol is detected? We could pay for it out of our own pockets since sobriety checkpoints rely on overtime hours by the police force and we are paying that anyways with our tax dollars. Better yet, why don't we just make alcohol illegal for the greater good?

I've been an adult for many years. I still have a mother and father and really do not need a government appointed parent or nanny. The idea of accepting being herded around like sheep just makes me ill.
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Old 11-12-2013, 03:50 PM
 
1,006 posts, read 1,623,893 times
Reputation: 1553
Quote:
Originally Posted by lady fern View Post
I've been an adult for many years. I still have a mother and father and really do not need a government appointed parent or nanny. The idea of accepting being herded around like sheep just makes me ill.

Unfortunately, many, many of your fellow citizens aren't as responsible as you and are unable to make good decisions. The cost of someone protecting me from them by doing a random check point is a bargain with regards to my safety and that of my family. If you are innocent and inconvenienced I don't really care because without third part verification, I don't believe you when you say you aren't drunk (not you personally of course).
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Old 11-12-2013, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Washington State. Not Seattle.
1,585 posts, read 1,712,205 times
Reputation: 1538
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocaseco View Post
Unfortunately, many, many of your fellow citizens aren't as responsible as you and are unable to make good decisions. The cost of someone protecting me from them by doing a random check point is a bargain with regards to my safety and that of my family. If you are innocent and inconvenienced I don't really care because without third part verification, I don't believe you when you say you aren't drunk (not you personally of course).
Is there actually have any evidence whatsoever that the amount of taxpayer money and time to "inconvenience" people will be adequately offset by the number of drunk drivers taken off the street? If these random checkpoints catch 1 or 2 drunk drivers a month, while increasing police payroll by hundreds of thousands of dollars, and stopping hundreds of people for no reason, then is it worth it? Has anyone even done the research?

Or is this just more liberal idealism - litigating by enacting emotional "feel good" laws, rather than scientifically supported ones?
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Old 11-12-2013, 06:53 PM
 
537 posts, read 551,483 times
Reputation: 884
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
US author, diplomat, inventor, physicist, politician, & printer (1706 - 1790)

What he said. Move to a nanny state and stay out of mine.
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Old 11-12-2013, 08:25 PM
 
Location: Bothell, Washington
2,638 posts, read 4,121,621 times
Reputation: 3539
Quote:
Originally Posted by PS90 View Post
Is there actually have any evidence whatsoever that the amount of taxpayer money and time to "inconvenience" people will be adequately offset by the number of drunk drivers taken off the street? If these random checkpoints catch 1 or 2 drunk drivers a month, while increasing police payroll by hundreds of thousands of dollars, and stopping hundreds of people for no reason, then is it worth it? Has anyone even done the research?

Or is this just more liberal idealism - litigating by enacting emotional "feel good" laws, rather than scientifically supported ones?
I'm sure the guy who lost his parents, had his wife brain damaged and almost lost his newborn baby to a drunk driver in north seattle would agree with you, that the drunk driver deserved the freedom from sobriety check points.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Canyon Cat View Post
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
US author, diplomat, inventor, physicist, politician, & printer (1706 - 1790)

What he said. Move to a nanny state and stay out of mine.


Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk
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Old 11-12-2013, 11:23 PM
 
537 posts, read 551,483 times
Reputation: 884
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm31828 View Post
I'm sure the guy who lost his parents, had his wife brain damaged and almost lost his newborn baby to a drunk driver in north seattle would agree with you, that the drunk driver deserved the freedom from sobriety check points.

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk
Appeal to emotion fallacy. Fail.

Sent from my WTF097-357 tin can with a long string.
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:05 AM
 
Location: Conservative Las Vegas
15,487 posts, read 18,126,513 times
Reputation: 20548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Freddy View Post
I would be in favor of random searches if they not only detected drunken drivers, but also those who are stupid, mentally unstable, or technically incompetent.
You're far safer driving with me when I've consumed a couple drinks. Don't, don't! drive with me when I'm sober! Ever taken a vacation in Somalia?

Two drinks, and I'm the most paranoid, vigilant driver on the roads. I even look for cops under the floor mats of my car! I'm so extra-extra careful not to get a ticket I actually come to a dead stop at a yellow light, and I drive just one mile under the speed limit!

Now, when sober, I'm a big-time day dreaming driver, Juan Gabriel comes on the radio, and I'm in another world, oblivious to stop lights, yield signs, and my speedometer! Oh, how I'll laugh, the day I'm in an accident! The brain-washed, robotic police will automatically check my blood alcohol level, and what a surprise for them! Dead sober! Smashed on daydreams!

It's been well-proven, sleep deprived drivers are equal to drunk drivers, but aha! They haven't engineered a test yet to catch these dangerous drivers on our roads! And until then.........................................

In the 12 years I've worked the night shift at a LTC facility, there's been 2 nurses, having worked double shifts, who fell asleep at the wheel returning home. One rear-ended someone, the other one was luckier, she jumped a curb and came to rest in a vacant parking lot!

And then, I read about it in the paper ever so often, some elderly, or not so elderly driver, smashes into something and the verdict: medical episode!

Our country is never happier when it's on a witch-hunt, all started in Salem, Massachusetts, and will it ever end!!!
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:32 AM
 
30,885 posts, read 35,019,562 times
Reputation: 25484
I'll go through the hassle of a sobriety checkpoint if it successfully gets drunks off the road.
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:59 AM
 
1,006 posts, read 1,623,893 times
Reputation: 1553
Quote:
Originally Posted by PS90 View Post
Is there actually have any evidence whatsoever that the amount of taxpayer money and time to "inconvenience" people will be adequately offset by the number of drunk drivers taken off the street? If these random checkpoints catch 1 or 2 drunk drivers a month, while increasing police payroll by hundreds of thousands of dollars, and stopping hundreds of people for no reason, then is it worth it? Has anyone even done the research?

Or is this just more liberal idealism - litigating by enacting emotional "feel good" laws, rather than scientifically supported ones?

I don't know if there is evidence or not. I'm no expert. I do feel that it makes common sense that when these type of events are announced, some drivers will think twice about drinking and driving. By default that does make the road safer. It's anecdotal, at best, but it also passes the common sense test. Also, they tend to get substantially more than one or two drivers. There are lots of police actions like this that would be deemed preventitive. Just because you can't measure the benefit doesnt negate their value. Do you know if it costs hundreds of thousands of dollars or was that made up for dramatic effect? I don't know what the cost is, but maybe you have some experience in that field. Bottom line is that this will likely happen and when it does, I'll feel better and I'll be far from alone. Meanwhile the naysayers will have one more thing to grumble and stress about.
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Washington State. Not Seattle.
1,585 posts, read 1,712,205 times
Reputation: 1538
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm31828 View Post
I'm sure the guy who lost his parents, had his wife brain damaged and almost lost his newborn baby to a drunk driver in north seattle would agree with you, that the drunk driver deserved the freedom from sobriety check points.
Well, then it's a good thing that this country is supposedly still a democracy and that guys' one vote should count to the same extent as the person who is level-headed enough to actually look at the facts and the economics of implementing something like this.
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