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Old 03-28-2014, 01:45 AM
 
Location: Olympia, Washington
2,597 posts, read 2,990,289 times
Reputation: 2876

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seacove View Post
So are you saying more guns equal less violence? Because Canada has far fewer guns and far less violence. Here's where you get all wound up again. I'm thinking it's a fear of background checks.
Canada has a lot less of other things.. To just say less guns equal less violence is about the most feeble and simple-minded statement I have yet heard.

ANd, FYI, Canada does not have far less violence in all places, in fact, some Canadian cities have much more violence than American cities with a high number of gun ownership.

Also, I can attest that there is an inverse relationship to gun ownership, less restrictive gun laws and gun crime. In the USA, areas with the highest number of gun ownership and least restrictive gun laws actually have the least amount of violent crime..

You don't believe me??? Let the statistics speak for themselves. Of course, I know you probably could care less about statistics and just want to preach the party line or run to the fear gurus on your local news channel who tell you what to think.


But, let's examine those statistics:

Winnipeg has on average more murders than Seattle, despite the fact that Winnipeg has very strict Canadian gun control and Seattle has some of the most lax gun laws in the entire USA.


In 2011, Seattle had 20 homicides compared to Winnipeg which had 39 homicides committed that year. Even though these numbers fluctuate, on average Winnipeg has more murders than Seattle and it is not even considered the most violent city in Canada. Cities like Saskatoon, Kelowna and Edmonton will sometimes surpass Winnipeg in murders.

Manitoba's homicide rate highest in Canada - Winnipeg Free Press




Now, let us compare the murder statistics of Chicago, IL and Washington, Dc to that of Billings, MT and Cheyenne, WY... This a comparison of two cities with the strictest gun laws in the country and least number of gun owners compared to two cities with the most relaxed gun laws and highest number of gun owners, these are per capita statistics:

Chicago - 18.5 murders per 100,000
Washington DC - 16.6 murders per 100,000

Billings, MT - 2.82 murders per 100,000
Cheyenne, WY - 0 murders per 100,000

And, if you want to compare the statistics of Chicago and Washington DC to a larger city like Seattle which also has a larger number of gun owners and less restrictive gun laws here we go:
Seattle, WA - 3.7 murders per 100,000


It appears your theory of more guns means more murders has been debunked by real-life statistics..


But, who says that gun-grabbing liberals ever were rational and used logic and facts to push their agendas.. Keep feeding the fire of ignorance, Big Brother and the National Security Agency are proud of you..

"We the Sheeple"
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Old 03-28-2014, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Seattle Area
1,716 posts, read 1,323,308 times
Reputation: 4099
Quote:
Originally Posted by RotseCherut View Post
I'm glad you have so much trust for your government that has broken the laws and violated our Constitution. BTW, Murder is illegal, so has it stopped people from killing people? There is no way to prevent every criminal from getting a gun illegally. You really are quite naive if you think the gun registration will save any lives . The only thing it will achieve is that the government will have tabs on every single gun in the hand of every law abiding citizen if the time arises for a global gun confiscation. Obama, himself, said he could issue an Executive Order in times of Crisis which would give him power to "temporarily" confiscate guns in time of emergency. This is our criminal government's way of circumventing the Constitution that was put in place to protect us from the type of government we have. If you don't believe me look back to Hurricane Katrina. I had a friend in the Marines (Marine Sergeant) who I use to shoot with, who was down there at the time. He told me the New Orleans police were rounding up guns and they would come to his unit and ask for assistance in rounding up guns. His officer told the New Orleans cops to go to h*ll and said they are on their own if they want to seize guns from law abiding citizens. Since it was a "State of Emergency" they were using the gun registration info of people as means to raid their houses and illegally seize guns from their property. The governor of the state of Louisiana felt he had the power that overrode the Constitution in the "time of crisis".


As far as me hitting the guy who blew pot smoke on my face, yeah I don't like people forcing drugs into my body. That is a form of assault , in itself. Sounds like you would be the kind of guy who would report your fellow citizen to a draconian government if they came to your house demanding your guns and to report all your neighbors /friends. After all, the government only has the best intentions in mind for the sake of "your security".

I can understand why you support forced gun registration, you are obedient to whatever the government says, because you don't have the courage to stand up for yourself.. I don't care that you own guns, that means nothing if you are not willing to stand up for your rights and defend our laws.

Nice to meet you, traitor.


BTW.. I put imbeciles like Yakscd on ignore.. They are just out to start trouble because they have nothing better to do with their sorry lives.
You are welcome to put me on ignore, though I doubt you will. Most people who say that are just looking for a dramatic statement to garner attention. I don't put anyone on ignore as I want to engage in dialog and you can't do that if the other side stops listening. Of course I also don't retreat to name calling as my defense when I can't articulate my position.

You have made the gun issue about government trust. For ME, they are separate issues. if you don't trust anything about your government, then life will be tougher for you. I think there are opportunities for them to improve and yes they have outright lied, but I don't condemn the entire institution.

In regards to guns, I'm not naive to think registration will save lives, of course it will. The question is how many? I never claimed registration will stop all criminals from getting guns. It will however stop some people who shouldn't have guns, and that is enough reason for what is a minor inconvenience. I'm also not concerned with confiscation, because we all have millions of guns that aren't registered and will always be enough to wage any defense. And common sense says that just because you said you HAD a gun, doesn't mean you will hand it over. You lost it, it was stolen etc. Gun owners will never just turn over their guns because a government agent found their name on a list and showed up to ask for it. You defeat your own argument if you believe that.

You are a hothead..a hothead with a gun. You were quick to want to hit a guy for smoke. You are exactly the person I wish didn't own a gun. If you think that a judge would find your actions OK because he assaulted you with smoke, you are out of touch. You can't hit someone, or shoot someone, for a simple imposition. You have proven in other threads that people can get to you and make you react, I sure hope that never really happens and you do shoot someone as your exhibited judgement could leave you in a bad situation.

Last edited by Yakscsd; 03-28-2014 at 09:15 AM..
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Old 03-28-2014, 11:28 AM
 
5,076 posts, read 7,161,539 times
Reputation: 4581
Quote:
Originally Posted by RotseCherut View Post

And, if you want to compare the statistics of Chicago and Washington DC to a larger city like Seattle which also has a larger number of gun owners and less restrictive gun laws here we go:
Seattle, WA - 3.7 murders per 100,000


It appears your theory of more guns means more murders has been debunked by real-life statistics..

If we're going to compare Seattle to DC it's probably worth mentioning that both the Beltway Sniper and the Navy Yard shooter didn't even get a slap on the wrist in WA for committing gun related violence here before going on their killing sprees in DC. Maybe we're just the training ground?
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Old 03-28-2014, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Olympia, Washington
2,597 posts, read 2,990,289 times
Reputation: 2876
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkarch View Post
If we're going to compare Seattle to DC it's probably worth mentioning that both the Beltway Sniper and the Navy Yard shooter didn't even get a slap on the wrist in WA for committing gun related violence here before going on their killing sprees in DC. Maybe we're just the training ground?


Right, it is legal to murder people in Wash state, whereas in Wash DC it is a crime. Thanks for pointing that out to me..

Hey, I know, maybe we should make it a felony to unjustifiably shoot people with intent to cause bodily harm..
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Old 03-28-2014, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Yakima, Wa
421 posts, read 806,460 times
Reputation: 271
Quote:
let us compare the murder statistics of Chicago, IL and Washington, Dc to that of Billings, MT and Cheyenne, WY
Chicago and DC have large areas with lots of poor people, young people, and, it must be mentioned, high proportions of African Americans, which is why there is a lot of crime there. Billings and Cheyenne are small cities with probably not nearly as many young men or minorities, so it's hardly an accurate comparison.
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Old 03-28-2014, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Olympia, Washington
2,597 posts, read 2,990,289 times
Reputation: 2876
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlB328 View Post
Chicago and DC have large areas with lots of poor people, young people, and, it must be mentioned, high proportions of African Americans, which is why there is a lot of crime there. Billings and Cheyenne are small cities with probably not nearly as many young men or minorities, so it's hardly an accurate comparison.
Thanks for proving my point that guns are not the reason for the crime in these cities, but rather demographics, culture and poverty.. Wow, even an anti-gunner can finally come to his senses when some real facts and statistics are presented to him!

Now, stop advocating to control guns, which is a losing battle and work on battling problems with violence, poverty, drugs, gangs, which are more important issues to curbing violence than rounding up guns and banning guns. The two cities I mention have the strictest gun control in the USA. You cannot even own a handgun in Chicago, yet every criminal has one there. As you, yourself, can see, the strict gun control has not prevented these cities from becoming murder capitals.

If having lots of guns on the street and lack of gun control was the source of violent crime, places like Billings, Cheyenne, Boise, Fargo, Salt Lake City and Seattle would be war zones with soaring murder rates. But, looking at statistics, it appears to be the exact opposite.
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:47 PM
 
5,076 posts, read 7,161,539 times
Reputation: 4581
Quote:
Originally Posted by RotseCherut View Post


Right, it is legal to murder people in Wash state, whereas in Wash DC it is a crime. Thanks for pointing that out to me..

Hey, I know, maybe we should make it a felony to unjustifiably shoot people with intent to cause bodily harm..
Sorry Rotse, this is exactly the kind of illogical fallacy that hurts your argument. In the two cases I cited, the police had no evidence that a murder had been committed, but did have evidence that the eventual shooters had engaged in reckless use of firearms in public. This is the kind of behavior that *should* be flagged on a background check and scrutinized when determining one's mental capacity to safely own and purchase firearms.
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Old 03-29-2014, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Washington State. Not Seattle.
1,586 posts, read 1,713,788 times
Reputation: 1538
Seacove said: "Overdramatic much? Are you afraid you wouldn't pass a background check? Sounds like it."

Is this a serious argument? I asked how you would decide who gets a gun and who doesn't, how is that being "overdramatic"?

This is the poorest debate tactic that exists - basically you are saying "I have no reasonable retort to your comment, so I will insult you by calling you overdramatic and implying that you are a felon".


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Old 04-02-2014, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Renton Washington
256 posts, read 405,874 times
Reputation: 173
Stop voting anti gun measures ffs. I will not even use the 2nd admendment in my debate about this.

Banning a weapon means the gun company will make the gun in a foreign country (lost jobs), organized crime will buy the weapon in said country and smuggle it in making money for the cartel, mafia whatever. Then violence occurs and we have to spend more money in police action to try to stop this.

Only criminals and crazy ass liberals want this. Want proof take a trip to Chicago and Juarez
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Old 04-02-2014, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Olympia, Washington
2,597 posts, read 2,990,289 times
Reputation: 2876
Quote:
Originally Posted by downnice View Post
Stop voting anti gun measures ffs. I will not even use the 2nd admendment in my debate about this.

Banning a weapon means the gun company will make the gun in a foreign country (lost jobs), organized crime will buy the weapon in said country and smuggle it in making money for the cartel, mafia whatever. Then violence occurs and we have to spend more money in police action to try to stop this.

Only criminals and crazy ass liberals want this. Want proof take a trip to Chicago and Juarez
Liberals think with emotional responses and are educated by media propaganda. They tend to not think with reason or critically examine any issue into any depth.

Sadly, that is why our country is struggling now, as a bunch of ignorant liberals want to save the world, but think something as simple as heavily taxing the rich and redistributing the wealth to the poor or banning guns will end all poverty and crime.
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