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Old 04-28-2014, 03:06 PM
 
119 posts, read 157,915 times
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Thanks for a feedback everyone.

Most people just don't have the ability to realistically look at the surroundings in which they grew up in an objective manner. The social conditioning they have been through all their lives has got their mind locked into a certain mode of thinking. It takes a very free-minded and knowledgeable individual to look at the culture they live in and identify social problems. Most folks go through their whole life never really questioning the foundations of the society they live in. It's taboo to many people to question these things so they never do it.

I once stayed in a country in West Africa where slavery is still practiced. It is a strictly Islamic society. Many things about the place were backwards to me, many things about it would seem backwards to any American person. But of course, most of the local people there really thought everything was just fine. The slavery, the genital mutilation, the strict Islamic lifestyle, the human rights abuses that were an every day occurance. It was all normal to them. Even the slaves in this country were brainwashed into thinking that it is normal to be a slave. Only a small percentage of the people seemed to be aware of the bigger picture.

It's social engineering and conformity to backwards social norms that drives this type of ignorance. The people of the US have been under heavy social engineering by media and other sources for a long time. Most Americans are very socially conditioned to think a certain way. They have been wound up like a wind up toy, now they are blindly marching forward.

If you brainwash people in a certain direction from the time of birth, they will grow up to think that the way they were raised was the right way, just because it's all they know. If you give people one path to follow, the vast majority of them will just go down that path no matter how absurd it is. The absurdities become rationalized.

It's the same problem in WA. Lots of these small town people just don't know anything outside their little bubble and their horizons are very limited. But the worst thing about it is that at the same time, they have that American attitude of pride, aggression, arrogance and materialism.

If a person is humble and respectful, I don't care what their beliefs are, they are good people in my book.

But when a person is ignorant, and also aggressive, unfriendly, crude. and intrusive, I think that can make for some of the worst types of people. And that is the problem in WA. Too many narrow minded people who act way too passive-aggressive. It's like the worst possible combination of personality traits.

Washington State is ALMOST a paradise. This place has the potential to be an amazing place. If people here would start to wake up and realize what's going on, stop being so negative and start being more positive, it could be so much better.

I try to stay positive. But I admit, sometimes the bad vibes get the best of me and I just get in a funk myself. The only things I can do is lead by example and show these people that you don't have to conform to mediocrity.
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Old 04-28-2014, 05:05 PM
 
854 posts, read 820,524 times
Reputation: 504
Quote:
Originally Posted by TravelingAndSettling View Post
Thanks for a feedback everyone.

Most people just don't have the ability to realistically look at the surroundings in which they grew up in an objective manner. The social conditioning they have been through all their lives has got their mind locked into a certain mode of thinking. It takes a very free-minded and knowledgeable individual to look at the culture they live in and identify social problems. Most folks go through their whole life never really questioning the foundations of the society they live in. It's taboo to many people to question these things so they never do it.

I once stayed in a country in West Africa where slavery is still practiced. It is a strictly Islamic society. Many things about the place were backwards to me, many things about it would seem backwards to any American person. But of course, most of the local people there really thought everything was just fine. The slavery, the genital mutilation, the strict Islamic lifestyle, the human rights abuses that were an every day occurance. It was all normal to them. Even the slaves in this country were brainwashed into thinking that it is normal to be a slave. Only a small percentage of the people seemed to be aware of the bigger picture.

It's social engineering and conformity to backwards social norms that drives this type of ignorance. The people of the US have been under heavy social engineering by media and other sources for a long time. Most Americans are very socially conditioned to think a certain way. They have been wound up like a wind up toy, now they are blindly marching forward.

If you brainwash people in a certain direction from the time of birth, they will grow up to think that the way they were raised was the right way, just because it's all they know. If you give people one path to follow, the vast majority of them will just go down that path no matter how absurd it is. The absurdities become rationalized.

It's the same problem in WA. Lots of these small town people just don't know anything outside their little bubble and their horizons are very limited. But the worst thing about it is that at the same time, they have that American attitude of pride, aggression, arrogance and materialism.

If a person is humble and respectful, I don't care what their beliefs are, they are good people in my book.

But when a person is ignorant, and also aggressive, unfriendly, crude. and intrusive, I think that can make for some of the worst types of people. And that is the problem in WA. Too many narrow minded people who act way too passive-aggressive. It's like the worst possible combination of personality traits.

Washington State is ALMOST a paradise. This place has the potential to be an amazing place. If people here would start to wake up and realize what's going on, stop being so negative and start being more positive, it could be so much better.

I try to stay positive. But I admit, sometimes the bad vibes get the best of me and I just get in a funk myself. The only things I can do is lead by example and show these people that you don't have to conform to mediocrity.
I let it get to me for a long time as well, even thought that I was the one who had the problem. Then I realized that it's just the culture of the Pacific Northwest. I think your right most of them are so used to it they don't even realize or think it's normal behavior. I find it hard to believe that some one who can write as eloquently as you have and explained your reasoning so clearly would be the one with the problem. You find a lot of people in the PNW who have the combination of narrow minded views and passive aggressive behavior. I just stopped trying to make friends in the area a lot of them aren't worth your time. I had a good friend that was born and raised in small town western Wa. Even he does this strange thing about pointing out things you do differently and gets this strange laugh or smirk when you are having a hard time doing something instead of helping. The friendship ended abruptly because he outright lied to me over something. I lost a piece of equipment and had to pay for it. Turns out six months later he had it the entire time, no apologies or anything just told me he had it after I spent weeks looking for it and eventually had to pay for it. I just couldn't understand this behavior, I felt like he was getting a kick out of me being worried about it. Needless to say we hardly speak anymore because it hurt me. I still regard him as a friend but we will never be close. I can't trust him, no doubt he was probably laughing it up with his local buddies. The funny thing is I have locals do this to each other but it's worse with outsiders. Not very trustworthy people in my opinion. This is just one example of passive aggressive type behavior I have dealt with and it ruined a friendship. I feel like a lot of people in the PNW like to watch others struggle and stand by making fun of them. Another example is a group of people I ran into one night at a restaurant I knew one of them and we met prior to the evening. I accompanied them to a local bar at their request. The entire night the only source of entertainment they had was talking about other people at the bar and trying to guess how much worse those peoples life was then theirs. It was a disgusting display of passive aggressive behavior, I got up and left and haven't spoken with them since. I don't do this because if I had as I was growing up my parents first of all wouldn't have allowed it a secondly I would have most likely got my ass kicked! Some of the things people do here would end in a severe beating in most other areas of the country. Not trying to be violent or anything just telling it like it is. People don't tolerate that type of behavior where I grew up, it will get put to the test quickly if you know what I mean. Part of this May be due to fact that people don't get into altercations very often here a lot of hot air and chest puff but when it comes down to it they are cowards.

Last edited by bad apples; 04-28-2014 at 05:44 PM..
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Old 04-28-2014, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Quimper Peninsula
1,968 posts, read 2,221,016 times
Reputation: 1667
Alright, I have a question for Bad Apples and Travelingandsettling::

Have ever of you lived in the equivalently rural (Removed from Major Metro) as you do in Washington?

If so what state?

---

I ask this because I see no difference in people here, matter of fact they are more open and accepting of diversity than say rural Wisconsin or Minnesota. Best I can tell people are very similar to rural people of the upper midwest. Even similar to those NE rural folks too, like in Maine and upstate NY.

I am almost 100% sure that if you were in say Escanaba MI you would be having the same "issues".

My family went from the "city" to the country when I was about 6 years old... We were always different and never 100% fit in with the very rural community we farmed. Heck, 40 some years later family members that are still their are "still not from around here". I don't go hating on them, belittling them. My feelings are not hurt... It is just a fact of life.. Respect is earned. Sure I earned a bunch... I could drink beer all night and work my tail off in the barn or field from dawn to dusk with the best of them..

Life in the country is not the PC pansy plastic bubble sheltered world of the suburbs.. Rural folks have more in common with the poor in urban core than soft suburbanites. I think your problems are based on rural culture shock, not having anything to do with the PNW.

In a past life, I traveled to just about every back water hospital in the entire country. I would spend nearly a week at each.. Rural Washington is no different than rural anywhere else in my opinion, and I strongly suspect this is the first experience for both of you being away from your comfort zone of suburbia.

----------------------------
I am not claiming everyone is perfect in rural areas, but the broad sweeping generalizations you both make are hilarious... Looking in the mirror at yourself once in a while is a wise thing ya know!.

With your attitudes you can see why some people really do not care for outsiders... You look down on us, unwilling to try and learn, quick to criticize.

Bad apples, there is nothing wrong with having someone pay for something they lost... Frequently I will state it up front! What is odd is that this little thing broke a friendship... I would give the person crap next time they wanted to borrow something that's for sure... but come on? Get real.
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Old 04-28-2014, 06:45 PM
 
854 posts, read 820,524 times
Reputation: 504
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueTimbers View Post
Alright, I have a question for Bad Apples and Travelingandsettling::

Have ever of you lived in the equivalently rural (Removed from Major Metro) as you do in Washington?

If so what state?

---

I ask this because I see no difference in people here, matter of fact they are more open and accepting of diversity than say rural Wisconsin or Minnesota. Best I can tell people are very similar to rural people of the upper midwest. Even similar to those NE rural folks too, like in Maine and upstate NY.

I am almost 100% sure that if you were in say Escanaba MI you would be having the same "issues".

My family went from the "city" to the country when I was about 6 years old... We were always different and never 100% fit in with the very rural community we farmed. Heck, 40 some years later family members that are still their are "still not from around here". I don't go hating on them, belittling them. My feelings are not hurt... It is just a fact of life.. Respect is earned. Sure I earned a bunch... I could drink beer all night and work my tail off in the barn or field from dawn to dusk with the best of them..

Life in the country is not the PC pansy plastic bubble sheltered world of the suburbs.. Rural folks have more in common with the poor in urban core than soft suburbanites. I think your problems are based on rural culture shock, not having anything to do with the PNW.

In a past life, I traveled to just about every back water hospital in the entire country. I would spend nearly a week at each.. Rural Washington is no different than rural anywhere else in my opinion, and I strongly suspect this is the first experience for both of you being away from your comfort zone of suburbia.

----------------------------
I am not claiming everyone is perfect in rural areas, but the broad sweeping generalizations you both make are hilarious... Looking in the mirror at yourself once in a while is a wise thing ya know!.

With your attitudes you can see why some people really do not care for outsiders... You look down on us, unwilling to try and learn, quick to criticize.

Bad apples, there is nothing wrong with having someone pay for something they lost... Frequently I will state it up front! What is odd is that this little thing broke a friendship... I would give the person crap next time they wanted to borrow something that's for sure... but come on? Get real.
I grew up in the rural southeast where a man lives by his word and hard work. Other "rural" places I have lived include Florida, Missouri and different parts of Washington. I am not and have never been considered a city slicker living in a bubble. In fact in my younger days this interaction would have probably ended in fisticuffs. They had the piece of equipment when I was looking for it and didn't tell me. Then after a few weeks I had to pay for it which I did and had no problem doing so, I wanted to make it right. All the while they sat back and watched and eventually kept the unit for their own personal use and told me they had it Six months later. If you think this is normal behavior it only further validates the OP's original topic. I should also mention I was friends with this person three years before this happened. I didn't have a problem paying for it I had a problem with a friend lying directly to me for no reason for months I even remember them suggesting for places to look for the equipment. I didn't say we weren't friends anymore but we will never be close. Don't try to turn this on me making me sound like the one at fault. I never looked down on anybody here in fact it's quite the opposite. I make friends pretty easily and don't judge others, I do however stop hanging out with friends who are dishonest and lie directly to my face for months. Apparently dishonesty isn't frowned upon as much in the Pacific Northwest. This was just one example I have countless other experiences with random people but this person was a friend. It is the people of the Northwest who look down on outsiders not the other way around and you are not going to change my opinion by telling me to get real. So I guess I should have been ok with them essentially stealing from the business and making it look like I lost the equipment. They never paid me back or gave me the equipment. Live and let live Cascadia nonsense. Fool me once, shame on me fool me twice go **** yourself. Have a nice day!

Last edited by bad apples; 04-28-2014 at 06:59 PM..
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Old 04-28-2014, 07:37 PM
 
119 posts, read 157,915 times
Reputation: 166
Personally I have been a rolling stone all my life and I've lived in plenty of big cities, small towns and everything in between. I have lived in several small towns in the US and abroad. And I have travelled all over the world.

In most other small towns I lived, the people were more genuine, more warm and friendly, more pleasant to be around, more trusting of you and more trustworthy themselves. I can definitely say that every other small town I've lived in was more welcoming to outsiders. And they usually seemed much more tolerant of different types of people. I always made friends in the other small towns.

Here in WA it's more like a cold and rugged ultra-individualism. Most people are distrustful of each other. Making a good friend is like finding a needle in a haystack. People from out of state are considered "outsiders' in a very xenophobic way which I have not seen in other states I've lived in. Most people I know out here have a tiny and closed off circle of friends. People seem paranoid and suspicious of each other.

It's very different in WA than the other small towns I lived in. There is an anti-social and negative element to it that is really strong, there's lot's people here who never seem to act positive at all, just extremely negative attitude.

I have heard people say it's because of Washington's history of timber industry. It's a state where logger culture has taken root as the mainstream in many places. That means very individualistic, unfriendly and macho. I think maybe there is some truth to this theory.

The anti-social atmosphere around here is brutal. It is definitely far beyond normal for a small town.
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Old 04-28-2014, 08:01 PM
 
854 posts, read 820,524 times
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I didn't mean to offend anyone with my posts. I just don't see eye to eye with the northwest culture. It's me and that's why I left. I am sure you are all happy I'm gone. I didn't paint a broad brush against any group of people there until I was about five years in.
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Old 04-28-2014, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Quimper Peninsula
1,968 posts, read 2,221,016 times
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Thanks for sharing..
Always trying to make sense of opinion/experience that differs from my own.

Maybe it is a mason dixon line thing? Maybe it is because I am a logger a farmer and sawmill operator usually coated in sawdust, mud or manure.?

It is my sawdust covered glasses clouding my view!

Bad Apples... Fighting words? Wow I am way too much of a passive aggressive to commit to anything like that.. You mean actually engage people?...ha

Anyway peace.. and happy trails..
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Old 04-28-2014, 08:42 PM
 
854 posts, read 820,524 times
Reputation: 504
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueTimbers View Post
Thanks for sharing..
Always trying to make sense of opinion/experience that differs from my own.

Maybe it is a mason dixon line thing? Maybe it is because I am a logger a farmer and sawmill operator usually coated in sawdust, mud or manure.?

It is my sawdust covered glasses clouding my view!

Bad Apples... Fighting words? Wow I am way too much of a passive aggressive to commit to anything like that.. You mean actually engage people?...ha

Anyway peace.. and happy trails..
Likewise, maybe I just lived in some real ****ty parts of Washington. There is quite a few. Yeah we have sawdust, timber, cow ****, and mud in the south too. Not sure what you mean by Fighting words? I didn't mean to infer I wanted to fight anybody in this thread but was just conveying my anger towards the PNWer who wronged me. There honestly is a fair amount of hostility towards southerners in the northwest at least where I was at. So maybe there is something to the Mason Dixon thing. You mentioned it please elaborate.

Last edited by bad apples; 04-28-2014 at 08:53 PM..
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Old 04-28-2014, 09:03 PM
 
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Most of it I believe, and in my opinion only, is that subtle, underlying Nordic reserve, and this more reserved, less social, more guarded ethos, can actually be found all the way from upper New England, to Minnesota, to North and South Dakota, Wisconsin, to all over the Pacific Northwest, imo. It is imo, a Scandinavian thing. When I was in the Dakotas, you could cut the ultra guarded, standoffishness, with a butter knife. WA state was the same, be it Spokane or Seattle, imo. This seems to be why so many upper Midwesterners/Plains staters seem to fit right in, in the PNW, imo.
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Old 04-29-2014, 01:29 AM
 
551 posts, read 590,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravelingAndSettling View Post
I guess I should just become a rugged individualist myself to handle this vibe.
I think the easiest way to deal with it is, to a degree, as you suggest: avoid interacting with these people. Ultimately, in moving to Washington I knew that I was making a choice -- scenery versus culture. I chose scenery, but there isn't a day that goes by that the I don't catch myself scoffing at the breathtakingly horrible people who populate that landscape. This is a great place. A plague could depopulate it and I think it would be better for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by starrider434 View Post
can actually be found all the way from upper New England, to Minnesota, to North and South Dakota, Wisconsin, to all over the Pacific Northwest, imo.
You know nothing of New England's culture, which is -- I would argue -- actually the polar opposite of the PNW. People in New England are outwardly cold and prickly, but beneath the surface are honest, kind, and even affectionate (they're also not Scandinavian -- outside of Boston [which is dominated by the vestiges of former-immigrant Irish and Italian populations], New Englanders are mostly English and French by descent). They're tough nuts to crack, but when you get past the shell, they're reliable, wholesome, and generally share a normal value system. They love their Sox, love their Pats (and loved these teams when they sucked, I might add, AHEM), and grudgingly admire one another. They are passionate about life, and convinced of their singular uniqueness. You'd be hard pressed to find a true New Englander who didn't believe that he and his ilk were the best of mankind.

By contrast, people in the PNW are outwardly placating and soft spoken, but hollow, empty, nightmarish husks underneath. It's easy to win the smile of the northwesterner, but nigh-impossible to earn anything resembling true friendship. And even if you manage to accomplish such a feat, you almost invariably discover that there's nothing there under the mask -- they are soulless. The tide of humanity here is polluted by a strain of utter ambivalence towards everything; a kind of nonchalant, shrug-my-shoulders approach to life that sees the best elements of humanity eroded into a corrosive ooze. You see it every time you're stuck 5 cars back at a light and the person at the front of the line is too busy picking their nose to go (and nobody can be bothered to hit the horn). You see it in the woman who urges you to 'go ahead of her' in the grocery line because you've only got five items, but who spends the next two minutes staring daggers at you. You hear it in the guy who calls into the Mariner's postgame show and 'swears he'll never watch another M's game in his life' as if any true fan would just bail out when times are tough. These people are angry, small, sorry little beings occupying an even smaller world. They choke on each other like weeds.

The only way to avoid becoming assimilated by this rampant disregard for life itself is to divorce yourself from the populace... which is precisely what myself and my husband have done. We live on a deserted island here... the world's most populated deserted island. And island life is good, provided that you don't engage the natives.

Last edited by PrincessoftheCape; 04-29-2014 at 01:49 AM..
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