Initiative 594 - not just guns? (Seattle, Mill Creek: rental, felon, buy)

[Olympian2]

Originally Posted by BellevueNative

If 594 passes, I foresee many more applications for CPLs. Then one doesn't have to worry about the pesky transfer issues.

Oh yes you do! There are no exemptions in the initiative for CPL holders or even (currently) private transactions involving state and Federal law enforcement officers. So if I wanted to, let's say, sell or trade a firearm to a National Park Ranger (a Federal law enforcement officer), why we could be required by state law to drive into town and then pay a "reasonable fee" for a background check on a LEO.

If I-594 passes (and it will with such widespread complacency and deceptive advertising), I foresee many more FFL applications.

Perhaps surprisingly to some, the gun dealers tend to support the initiative as it is a "free" way of getting customers into their stores.

[happygeek]

Originally Posted by Olympian2

Oh yes you do! There are no exemptions in the initiative for CPL holders or even (currently) private transactions involving state and Federal law enforcement officers. So if I wanted to, let's say, sell or trade a firearm to a National Park Ranger (a Federal law enforcement officer), why we could be required by state law to drive into town and then pay a "reasonable fee" for a background check on a LEO.

If I-594 passes (and it will with such widespread complacency and deceptive advertising), I foresee many more FFL applications.

Perhaps surprisingly to some, the gun dealers tend to support the initiative as it is a "free" way of getting customers into their stores.

That's not surprising, to me anyway. It always amuses me when the anti-gun groups talk about the "gun lobby", like we're some uni-block whose interests line up perfectly. In reality, I don't consider most gun stores to have consumer's best interests in mind at all.

Don't forget about the usage tax with that. Speaking of "transfers" to LE, if a LEO stops you for whatever reason, wants to take possession of your legally carried pistol and clear it for his own peace of mind ... would you both be felons when he gives it back?

The thing of it is, if they'd wanted to write a bill that covers sales and not "transfers" they could have. Other states have such laws. With I-594 I'm left with the almost inescapable conclusion that the whole point is to create as many insta-felons as possible. It may also be meant to completely end legal recreational range time with a group of friends.

[verlando]

Getting in late on the conversation - you guys all make some very good points. The one that is most troubling to me is the notion that this bill will decrease violence against women. I think a bill like this should lack any and all special interest and it's irritating to me that the commercials I've seen on the bill are all associated with voting one way to stop violence against women.

Don't get me wrong, I love women but that's beside the point... ;-)

[BellevueNative]

Originally Posted by verlando

Getting in late on the conversation - you guys all make some very good points. The one that is most troubling to me is the notion that this bill will decrease violence against women. I think a bill like this should lack any and all special interest and it's irritating to me that the commercials I've seen on the bill are all associated with voting one way to stop violence against women.

Don't get me wrong, I love women but that's beside the point... ;-)

It's because they're talking to women. Women are overwhelmingly anti-gun in much of the country, primarily because they're completely unfamiliar with guns. Many are "afraid" of them, as I was until I met my husband (who wanted me to learn how to handle one). They aren't aware of what the current laws and processes are, so they won't question something as "common sense" sounding as "background checks are good!"

[xboxmas]

Well damn, it looks like it has passed. Do you think there's any chance the state supreme court could overturn it?

[mrazyattic]

You guys really messed up with this bill. You have to read beyond the first few lines. When my buddy in WA was complaining about it, I told him "chill down I would vote yes on it too" until I actually read the whole thing. This does absolutely nothing to curb violence. It makes me a felon for letting my father borrow my rifle to go deer hunting without him going through a background check, tax, fees, etc. Even though my father owns guns and is not a felon. Absolutely ridiculous. I don't understand what people think this will stop? Do you really think a person going to commit a heinous crime like murder cares about breaking this little pesky law? Absolutely not. This does nothing more than turn law abiding citizens like my father and I into felons, while felons will remain..... you guessed it! felons....

I really hope this gets overturned. WA people..... THINK AND READ what you are voting for.

[thatguy950]

Originally Posted by xboxmas

Well damn, it looks like it has passed. Do you think there's any chance the state supreme court could overturn it?

I wouldn't count on it.... I get the feeling that the overall trend in this country is heading toward more restrictive gun control and the courts will simply look the other way. It's unfortunate, too, since it will do NOTHING to reduce violence.

[BellevueNative]

Originally Posted by mrazyattic

You guys really messed up with this bill. You have to read beyond the first few lines. When my buddy in WA was complaining about it, I told him "chill down I would vote yes on it too" until I actually read the whole thing. This does absolutely nothing to curb violence. It makes me a felon for letting my father borrow my rifle to go deer hunting without him going through a background check, tax, fees, etc. Even though my father owns guns and is not a felon. Absolutely ridiculous. I don't understand what people think this will stop? Do you really think a person going to commit a heinous crime like murder cares about breaking this little pesky law? Absolutely not. This does nothing more than turn law abiding citizens like my father and I into felons, while felons will remain..... you guessed it! felons....

I really hope this gets overturned. WA people..... THINK AND READ what you are voting for.

People who are afraid of guns are in favor of any and all restrictions. So yeah, they're going to vote for any type of gun control. They don't own guns and don't know what the current processes are to purchase a gun. What this WILL result in is more people buying guns, including duplicates, because now I could never carry one of my husband's guns, for example (and he couldn't carry one of mine).

There will eventually be another tragic mass shooting, and the first thing those people will wonder is "How did he get the gun?!" The answer is usually that it was stolen, or that he passed a background check because nothing in his background was grounds for denial. That right there is the real issue, and it's one that no one wants to talk about.

[xboxmas]

Originally Posted by thatguy950

I wouldn't count on it.... I get the feeling that the overall trend in this country is heading toward more restrictive gun control and the courts will simply look the other way. It's unfortunate, too, since it will do NOTHING to reduce violence.

Or maybe at least make a modification. This is WAY too restrictive. I'm hoping in a few years somebody creates an initiative that goes against this. Especially once they see just how "well" this works.

Oh well, I can't be too angry, I won't let it take away my joy in the Republican victories tonight.

[RotseCherut]

This is a miserable day for Washington state residents and Americans as a whole. Thankfully, the slicksters in the government has a very dumb populace who generally will only read the first line of a bill anyway. This bill was never about SAVING THE CHILDREN or PROTECTING THE PEOPLE FROM FELONs. It's about control, gun control. The bill has achieved only one thing, to make criminals out of law abiding citizens. Criminals will continue getting their guns on the black market as they always did, but now many law-abiding citizens will have their rights restricted with this BS measure that will achieve nothing except straining the tax payers with the new burden of creating a state gun registration database that will only serve in the future for disarming WA state residents of their guns when the government outright bans them via more deceptive bills and fraudulent and unconstitutional laws like these. This law is completely unenforceable and there really is no way, unless the government hires a considerable large amount of law enforcement to bust people selling guns at gun shows, gun forums ,etc to ever enforce the law. ANd, who is to say when any gun was really acquired or sold? Bill of sales were never required. Who is to say the government cannot start knocking down peoples' doors tomorrow to search for any "illegal" guns that they deem have been "illegally" acquired. The bill is so vague that it really does not emphasize all the little misnomers that it creates.

Another point, if this gun was about Saving the People from Felons, then why does the government insist on charging the 9-10% Use Tax on all gun transfers? Wouldn't that be another discouragement of people to utilize an FFL for the transfer , now they have to fork out not only FFL fees, but large Use Tax fees? This is just another lying, deceiving and criminal feat of the Washington government to not only build themselves up a gun registration database to monitor gun owners, but also to capitalize on gun owners. I personally think putting together a class action law suit to sue the state of Washington for illicitly imposing an unconstitutional tax on gun transfers should be done ASAP. That , among , other lawsuits to fight the unsavory measures hidden in this bill. Saving the children??? Protecting the people?? No, empowering the Government!

I-594 has very little to do about guns, it has much more to do about "CONTROL".


Anyway, Adolf Hitler would have been proud.. Hitler, himself once said "Thank G-d for the leaders, the people cannot think."

Hitler, btw, utilized gun registration to disarm his political enemies and the Jewish people and it helped him in massacring a good number of my relatives.


I know it's time to pack my bags and leave Washington. As with Colorado, first they will ban the private sales, then they will ban the magainzes, then they will outright ban all types of guns they deem "dangerous". Washington is going to spiral down the perpetual vortex of liberal death.

Welcome to New Jersey West or California North.. The New and Improved Washington. The East Coast and California people are here to save the poor Washington people. Washington was a crime ridden state full of felons murdering people with dangerous assault weapons with high capacity magazines they illegally purchased at gun shows. Thankfully, the liberal people will be here to save us from all the chaos and mayhem that is devouring our state.

Hopefully, Washington will end up nice, clean and peaceful just like the wonderful places you liberal fascists came from.. THanks so much!!

I grew up here and now I am packing my bags so you can continue to make your improvements. The government is patting you on the back.