Port Townsend questions (Seattle, Everett, Edmonds: 2015, co-op, buy)

[rantiquity]

Originally Posted by Jackie Fieri

yeah, "hobby stores". the shops downtown owned by "young entrepreneurs" are
basically kids from rich families, who set up shop and then sit in their shops treating
the locals in the most surly manner possible. not only that, when you look at the
bottom of all the crapthey sell, it's "made in china". not only that, their stores last
on average about 3 months. then they wait a minute, go to a new locattion with
a new name, and set up another store. my guess is, it's a tax writeoff for their
parents, or money laundering, or both. "taking back main street"my fanny.
there's word for it. it's called *gentrification*.

you may be a hobby something or other, but we who are working class and
struggling to make ends meet, could *really* use a wal mart here. the truth of
our lives is, our money is gonna get stolen from us by banks and large corporations,
nomatter what. most of the rich people here avoid paying whatever taxes they can,
and refuse to help build a homeless shelter or any of the other things low income
people need. what difference does it make to us if the rich people are waltons
or city council memebers? i've lived in communities where there is a wal mart.
wal mart does more for low income people than port townsend does, and if
you know anything at all about wal mart, that should give you an idea of
how cruel the redlining in port townsend is.

you aren't "taking back mainstreet". you're just making sure the rich fat pigs
of this particular town fare well, intead of the rich fat pigs of another town.
meanwhile, the poor still suffer and starve, either way.

Port Townsend in a nut shell...well stated.

[Ruth4Truth]

So, @TrueTimbers, what's your take on the Growler issue? I'm sure I've asked you this before, but newer members may benefit from a review. Maybe only people living near the water hear the noise, as it's amplified by the water? I didn't hear any Growlers when I was there. On an earlier thread, someone said they're not flying over Pt T, they're flying over the water to avoid the town.

[pikabike]

Originally Posted by elkotronics

Hey, TT, I was reading someone just mercilessly putting down Port Townsend on here earlier. Wow, they were trying to say that the people of Port Townsend were in some kind of snobbish "Country Club" of sorts, rude to outsiders. Truth? I immediately thought that I should ask someone who really lives there.

Actually, that poster seemed to refer mainly to a group of wealthy people in power, not all the residents. But other parts of his or her post did lump all residents together. I agree with his or her comments about the "inner circle." But there ARE non-inner-circle, non-wealthy residents who try to control others' behavior with the old "We in Port Townsend..." groupthink spiel.

Watch out for the boosters/realtors/spin doctors. THAT is a valid warning. We have neighbors who wondered why there aren't 300 days of sunshine, as glowingly promoted to them. The spiel given to us had more to do with how nice people are. It is a city; some are nice and some are not, no matter how hard a spin you put on it. And the city itself is well-known for being difficult and obstructionist regarding permits for building anything. Some of it is justified. Some of it.

One thing that is not so well known is that the city keeps permits on record for ONLY 5 years. Anything older than that and good luck finding out what was done with a property! If you have a house built, keep copies of your own in a safe deposit box. The city won't do it, and no, they do not digitize them, either. BTW, city workers are union, including administrative/office workers.

[pikabike]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

So, @TrueTimbers, what's your take on the Growler issue? I'm sure I've asked you this before, but newer members may benefit from a review. Maybe only people living near the water hear the noise, as it's amplified by the water? I didn't hear any Growlers when I was there. On an earlier thread, someone said they're not flying over Pt T, they're flying over the water to avoid the town.

They fly in violation of their alleged rules. Really low, really close to land. At least one time they flew right over my house, and another time when I was in a building at Fort Worden, it sounded like they flew over land there, too. They lie about the times and days they will fly, they do things like stop flying at about 9 pm...and then resume at 11 pm onward. Ruth, you don't seem to want to hear bad things, but all the complaining is not exaggeration. Whidbey Islanders--or at least those not employed by/related to the Navy--could bend your ear more about the noise.

The first time our new neighbors experienced the "sound of freedom," they asked if something terrible had happened, i.e. had the U.S. just been attacked. The sound is far, far louder than even a commercial jet.

[pikabike]

Originally Posted by Jackie Fieri

yeah, "hobby stores". the shops downtown owned by "young entrepreneurs" are
basically kids from rich families, who set up shop and then sit in their shops treating
the locals in the most surly manner possible. not only that, when you look at the
bottom of all the crapthey sell, it's "made in china". not only that, their stores last
on average about 3 months. then they wait a minute, go to a new locattion with
a new name, and set up another store. my guess is, it's a tax writeoff for their
parents, or money laundering, or both. "taking back main street"my fanny.
there's word for it. it's called *gentrification*.

you may be a hobby something or other, but we who are working class and
struggling to make ends meet, could *really* use a wal mart here. the truth of
our lives is, our money is gonna get stolen from us by banks and large corporations,
nomatter what. most of the rich people here avoid paying whatever taxes they can,
and refuse to help build a homeless shelter or any of the other things low income
people need. what difference does it make to us if the rich people are waltons
or city council memebers? i've lived in communities where there is a wal mart.
wal mart does more for low income people than port townsend does, and if
you know anything at all about wal mart, that should give you an idea of
how cruel the redlining in port townsend is.

you aren't "taking back mainstreet". you're just making sure the rich fat pigs
of this particular town fare well, intead of the rich fat pigs of another town.
meanwhile, the poor still suffer and starve, either way.

Fact is, a lot of PTers of all income/wealth levels go to WalMart, Costco, etc. The downtown boosters can take their take-back slogan and wave it around like mad, but that won't stop people from shopping to fit their budgets. And hallelujah for that! If we bought 100% local, we would spend more money, have far fewer choices, and only give some merchants a reason to jack up prices. I do support local stores for most things, but have NO qualms about buying elsewhere when they don't have something, tack on higher prices than found elsewhere for the same item, or offer poor service.

[elkotronics]

BTW, city workers are union, including administrative/office workers.

Not necessarily a good thing if one wants stuff ta get done, huh? Agreed, pikabike.

[pikabike]

Elkotronic, ask a contractor and you will hear more about that! One of them tells people they would do better to build in the county but outside PT city limits. Another warns that in the city you get to pay twice as much to put in old-school, small-diameter pipe, and the city will not let you use more standard, better modern materials instead. And this has nothing to do with Historic Districts. It applies to everywhere in the city.

All I am trying to get across is that PT has some real disadvantages and negative aspects as well as the highly-touted positive ones. People need to take a really long, hard look, or preferably many of them over a long time, to decide if it lives up to the hype. I don't think it does. However, I also don't think it is as bleak as CD posts sometimes make it sound. It is a mix, like anywhere else, not a paradise or care-free place. It is definitely expensive, and not just to young or lower-paid people.

[MarciaMarshaMarcia]

Originally Posted by rantiquity

What hasn't been you experience? What in my post is wrong? The cancer center? explain?

I don't know anything about the cancer center. I know plenty about orthopedic care & I have had to seek specialized care for myself in Seattle numerous times, to correct mistakes made by local "specialists". My neighbors go to Seattle for cardiac care rather than staying local. I do know someone, who, after getting the runaround for her cancer care in Sequim, sought treatment in Seattle.

[MarciaMarshaMarcia]

Originally Posted by rantiquity

Whoa! FYI people who rent still pay the owners property taxes! Do you actually think the property owner would bear the cost by themselves? Another point... parents who send their kids to private school/home school are not exempt from paying property taxes....

Sequim schools are luxurious? When was the last time you visited a Sequim school? The in town grade school (Helen Haller), for example, has numerous portables and in fact after the levy failure they just added two new ones in the parking lot of the high school football field. Check out the bath rooms in those portables. Some of the activities at Helen Haller are done at the near by Boys and Girls Club because of a lack of space for the large student body. Boy did you get me started or what?

As I stated before, I WORKED in the Sequim schools...they are not the best, they are not the worst. I'm a parent, my kids went to overcrowded "trailer park" schools (not here) & became successful, college educated adults. I know people whose kids are graduates of or currently attending Port Angeles & Sequim schools & they are doing fine. Everyone would like a big, new, shiny facility, but that is not always possible. What is TAUGHT in school is the essence of education! No one needs a new cafeteria!

[TrueTimbers]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

So, @TrueTimbers, what's your take on the Growler issue? I'm sure I've asked you this before, but newer members may benefit from a review. Maybe only people living near the water hear the noise, as it's amplified by the water? I didn't hear any Growlers when I was there. On an earlier thread, someone said they're not flying over Pt T, they're flying over the water to avoid the town.

A mile or two inland from water on 3 sides, growlers are not the dominant noise pollution.

Maybe a few 15 to 30 minute sessions of distant thunder, 10 days a month.

I have seen/heard them come down the Straight quite close to shore once.. That will pause your conversation!

It seems different people have different sensitivities., and I don't live on the coast.