WA wood heating/smoke/asthma (Shelton, Spokane, Newport) (Olympia, Wenatchee: condo, house)

[mistyriver]

Many, many people in the Newport area hear with wood and woodstoves. I never see clouds of smoke hanging overhead but you can smell it for sure.

[509]

Originally Posted by bobcatpossum

Oh no, not SF Bay area!!!
...............When I stayed in Eugene OR, I saw people running electric heaters with open windows, and every place being super heated-up with electric, the electricity must be really cheap there, and air was very clean, just like in many little towns in Western OR, so hope in WA there're similar areas. I find that if the place has natural gas, many prefer this. Say, in Tahoe area---smoke isn't that strong as many properties are on gas line, and renters also prefer gas property over one on primary wood source.................

I was working for the Forest Service when we got sued by the Sierra Club for providing cheap firewood to the public.

I did the economic analysis in the environmental assessment that was court ordered. This is what I learned.

Electricity is cheap is the Northwest. However, wood is even cheaper for heating. According to BPA about 25% of the Northwest heating is wood. So much so, that BPA got Congress to change the Clean Air Act so the grid would not go down.

Most areas of the Northwest have severe wood smoke issues. They are much worse in the urban areas. The state department of Ecology will NOT call for burning bans at the front end. In my interview with a Department of Ecology employee I mentioned that they should make EVERY day a no burn day, unless conditions are ok for burning. His reply, was that they could not stand the political heat. So you get to breathe dirty air.

Wood smoke issues are directly related to density. Certified stoves, etc. etc. really have no effect on air quality. Yes, they help, but there are too many people in urban areas for them to have a significant effect. Air quality is bad in urban areas during winter. We lived in Coeur d'Alene and could not open the windows due to the smoke.

Make no mistake. Wood smoke is dirty and unhealthy for you. There is NO scientific argument about that!!

When we moved to rural areas, wood smoke was not an issue. Not enough neighbors for their smoke to affect us!!

I have a collegue with severe lung issues in Wenatchee. He is not pleased by the Department of Ecology giving agriculture a free pass when it comes to air quality. Nobody burns wood for heat in Wenatchee due to the low price of electricity. But on those perfect winter days.....orchadists will burn a wood pile just because they can. The other issue in Wenatchee is the forest fire smoke. Last year, it was two month of smoke.

I think it will be two or three DECADES before we finally burn ALL the forestland on the local National Forests. So smoke will be a issue for that long. Trees grow....you recycle by cutting them down or burning them. Right now, both the state and Federal government have adopted a policy of burning them. So smoke will be an issue until we burn off the forest lands.

If you are sensitive to smoke...I would pass on the Northwest.

[Ultrarunner]

Pretty much my take and why I suggested the SF Bay Area under the auspices of the BAAQMD

I'm not kidding when I say the district employs roving smoke police and encourages anonymous reporting.

One point where I differ is agriculture... based on experience.

There are strict rules when it comes to dealing with blighted or infected trees... for some the only approved method is to incinerate on property...

Removal and transport is strictly prohibited...

Of course burning is only allowed on specific burn days when conditions permit and precautions in place.

[bobcatpossum]

Originally Posted by 509

I was working for the Forest Service when we got sued by the Sierra Club for providing cheap firewood to the public.

I did the economic analysis in the environmental assessment that was court ordered. This is what I learned.

Electricity is cheap is the Northwest. However, wood is even cheaper for heating. According to BPA about 25% of the Northwest heating is wood. So much so, that BPA got Congress to change the Clean Air Act so the grid would not go down.

Most areas of the Northwest have severe wood smoke issues. They are much worse in the urban areas. The state department of Ecology will NOT call for burning bans at the front end. In my interview with a Department of Ecology employee I mentioned that they should make EVERY day a no burn day, unless conditions are ok for burning. His reply, was that they could not stand the political heat. So you get to breathe dirty air.

Wood smoke issues are directly related to density. Certified stoves, etc. etc. really have no effect on air quality. Yes, they help, but there are too many people in urban areas for them to have a significant effect. Air quality is bad in urban areas during winter. We lived in Coeur d'Alene and could not open the windows due to the smoke.

Make no mistake. Wood smoke is dirty and unhealthy for you. There is NO scientific argument about that!!

When we moved to rural areas, wood smoke was not an issue. Not enough neighbors for their smoke to affect us!!

I have a collegue with severe lung issues in Wenatchee. He is not pleased by the Department of Ecology giving agriculture a free pass when it comes to air quality. Nobody burns wood for heat in Wenatchee due to the low price of electricity. But on those perfect winter days.....orchadists will burn a wood pile just because they can. The other issue in Wenatchee is the forest fire smoke. Last year, it was two month of smoke.

I think it will be two or three DECADES before we finally burn ALL the forestland on the local National Forests. So smoke will be a issue for that long. Trees grow....you recycle by cutting them down or burning them. Right now, both the state and Federal government have adopted a policy of burning them. So smoke will be an issue until we burn off the forest lands.

If you are sensitive to smoke...I would pass on the Northwest.

I had spent a winter in PNW before, in various rural parts of Western OR and around Olympia, ....and I don't remember a single time I was bothered by wood smoke. May be the rain was washing the smoke out and I just didn't feel it (it's always way worse in CA!). Also, it was quite windy a lot.

Wildfire smoke doesn't seem to be remotely as bad as heating smoke...unless this is a very major wildfire and you're right there. I had stayed in rural Sierra Nevada through summers with major wildfires going, which were at some distance, and that smoke was something I could deal with. I could detect smoke, but it wasn't bad like in-town due to heating.

I based my info on electric, wood and gas heating in WA on this document:
http://neea.org/docs/default-source/...l.pdf?sfvrsn=2

It states, on page 12, that wood heating is used by 7% (+ 1% pellets), natural gas by 48% and electric by 38%, of total number of single family homes. And it adds this for rural counties:
"Though more diverse in their heating, rural counties are still dominated by electric heat (61 percent), and more homes use wood heat (19 percent), compared to those using gas heat (15 percent)."

I don't have any other option than Washington, due to my complex tax situation, weather preferences, and employer office location, so this is just a question "where in WA".

Now, regarding Wentachee...if there're orchards and generally an agricultural area, this means a lot of pesticides....this is something worse than wood smoke in terms of health impact/allergy triggers.

[Ultrarunner]

I guess my home would be classified as electric heat since I have a central forced air electric furnace...

I also have a pellet stove, fireplace insert and freestanding stove.

All of my immediate neighbors primarily heat with wood...

[bobcatpossum]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

I guess my home would be classified as electric heat since I have a central forced air electric furnace...

I also have a pellet stove, fireplace insert and freestanding stove.

All of my immediate neighbors primarily heat with wood...

Not sure if they did any polls as to what people mostly use to compile that data or just used info on what's installed in the house/official primary heating source.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by bobcatpossum

Not sure if they did any polls as to what people mostly use to compile that data or just used info on what's installed in the house/official primary heating source.

If you go by building records my home has electric heat...

Works well but can get real pricey in the cold months.

There is an abundance of wood for the cost of picking it up and doing the work cut, split and season at least in my part of Thurston County

[bobcatpossum]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Tahoe also has regulations regarding fireplaces...

We were always on propane... and the power was always going out... at least we had hot water and could cook.

Even natural gas went out for an extended time and that caused all kinds of havoc as it was in winter... we were not affected as we had propane.

I do think you will find more wood burners in Washington/Oregon than the SF Bay Area... although Olympia has imposed wood burning restrictions.

I have a friend who is super sensitive... she moved to Pacifica and that took care of 99% of her problems...

Another friend/coworker has two boys and they had weekly visits to Kaiser for allergies... she moved to Hawaii and that was the end to their allergy problems...

It's good you are looking into this cautiously before making a move...

I use to make a little side money selling firewood in the East Bay... basically can't give it away today.

Tahoe infrastructure doesn't seem to be truly built for very cold or stormy weather. They had a -20 cold event 3 years ago which caused a lot of burst pipes all over the place....

Pacifica has ~750K medium home price right now...
I really like conifer forests, cold, rain, snow and every other aspect of Northern climate...Bay Area climate alone can drive one crazy, with flat and always warm weather (not to mention all other things that are not about climate!).

New Hampshire was another possible alternative for me, but seems like in NH wood smoke is a lot worse than in PNW (they have outdoor wood boilers thing... making the black billowing smoke cover ...these ain't "EPA" stoves)

[Ultrarunner]

A lot of Tahoe is old Tahoe... modest cabins for summertime use.

We've been lucky... so far no calamities in a 1964 cabin except for bear damage... and part of the damage was taking out the propane regulator!

Any idea what the lowest priced homes are in Pacifica... for those adversed to hot it is heaven... or so my allergy suffering friend has told me...

Don't get me wrong... I absolutely love Western Washington... really everything about except seeing my property tax jump 80% one year...

[bobcatpossum]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

A lot of Tahoe is old Tahoe... modest cabins for summertime use.

We've been lucky... so far no calamities in a 1964 cabin except for bear damage... and part of the damage was taking out the propane regulator!

Any idea what the lowest priced homes are in Pacifica... for those adversed to hot it is heaven... or so my allergy suffering friend has told me...

Don't get me wrong... I absolutely love Western Washington... really everything about except seeing my property tax jump 80% one year...

If I, hypothetically, bought a livable place in CA, property tax alone would be a deal breaker.
I'm aiming for areas like Pend O'Reille or Mason counties, where prices are low...so, taxes are not huge as well.
Pacifica is also a Tsunami zone...