Aberdeen and Hoquiam (Seattle, Bellingham, Olympia: for sale, real estate, crime rates)

[chricurtis]

are these diamonds in the rough or forlorn cities spiralling downward?

[CrazyDonkey]

A bit of both. What are your concerns?

[chricurtis]

well, it seemslike there are a lot of vacant buildings downtown, particularly in Aberdeen. Some are for sale, but most not. However, some of them look like they were beautiful at one point.

Secondly, with a well proteted harbor, one would think there would be a marina with oodles of boats, everything from leisure craft to sailing vessels to sport fishing, but I can see anything like that from topical maps.

third, crime rates seems unusually high compared to other cities inWashington of the same size.

[CrazyDonkey]

I grew up in Aberdeen in the 1950s when most of those buildings were occupied and the local economy was strong. That was when there was no lack of old growth trees, salmon, razor clams, and, long story, whores. It was a resource-extraction economy that, it turned out, was built on sand. The opening of the mall in South Aberdeen led to the hollowing out of Aberdeen's downtown, with quite a few of those buildings being replaced by vacant lots. Both the Aberdeen Theater and the D&R Theater closed - the D&R was restored (one of the hopeful signs), but the Aberdeen was converted into a church. The Hoquiam Theater was also restored.

There is a large fund of classic wood houses there with bargain values. See Westward Expansion?....

Despite the crime (largely "property" and primarily in the "flats"), there are lots of families with children there. They have an excellent YMCA there (in Hoquiam), and a great summer camp (Camp Bishop). You're 20 miles from miles and miles of ocean beaches (the winters are wet, but the summers are beautiful). There is swimming at Lake Aberdeen. There's hiking, camping, fishing, clamming, hunting, etc. The same Roller Rink I skated in as a kid is still there (although renamed).

The local economy is still lagging the rest of the state. While jobs aren't abundant, there is fiber Internet there (https://www.ghpud.org/about-telecommunications), so it is primed for work-from-homers and internet-entrepreneurs to come in and take advantage of the housing bargains. It is commutable to Olympia. People who're increasingly being priced out of Olympia are starting to look further west.

In the 1950s, Aberdeen/Hoquiam and Bellingham were very similar and close in population. The difference was that Bellingham had WWU (WWSC then), while Aberdeen/Hoquiam had Grays Harbor JC. Western became a nationally recognized center for environmental studies. In Grays Harbor, students go away for college, but most don't come back, because of a lack of well-paying jobs/careers. Personally I'd like to see a fifth "state" university or UW branch go in there, with an emphasis on marine sciences.

The "marina" is at Westport: www.portofgraysharbor.com/westport/westport-info-amenities.php.

[robin9]

CrazyDonkey, how would you compare the weather between Seattle and Aberdeen/Hoquiam?

I'm interested in the subjective daily/seasonal "feel" of living, especially any differences resulting from Seattle's "convergence zone" between Olympics/Puget Sound and the Cascades, vs A/H's location on the bay--

Is one area more gray and "dreary" than the other? Are the four seasons more-or-less equally distinct? Apparently it rains more in A/H, and the temp highs/lows more moderate--do the winters seem longer in one area? Are spring/summer/fall very similar?

I appreciate your perspective--

[CrazyDonkey]

Originally Posted by robin9

CrazyDonkey, how would you compare the weather between Seattle and Aberdeen/Hoquiam?

I'm interested in the subjective daily/seasonal "feel" of living, especially any differences resulting from Seattle's "convergence zone" between Olympics/Puget Sound and the Cascades, vs A/H's location on the bay--

Is one area more gray and "dreary" than the other? Are the four seasons more-or-less equally distinct? Apparently it rains more in A/H, and the temp highs/lows more moderate--do the winters seem longer in one area? Are spring/summer/fall very similar?

I appreciate your perspective--

The main difference is that Aberdeen/Hoquiam get over twice the rain that Seattle does (~80" vs ~37") - that's because Seattle is tucked behind the Olympic Mountains (in their "rain shadow"), while A/H is exposed to the Pacific Ocean. A/H get 110 precipitation days, vs 92 for Seattle - the rain is heavier, but only marginally more frequent. A/H is somewhat cloudier, with 127 sunny days vs 152 for Seattle. Temperatures are a bit more temperate - cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter, due to the moderating influence of the Pacific. A/H gets 1" of snow vs 5" for Seattle. A/H also gets "gale" winds in the winter. Otherwise, the climates are pretty similar. Both have short, but brilliant, summers.

Having grown up in Aberdeen, I scoff at the notion that Seattle is "rainy".

[Olympian2]

Originally Posted by chricurtis

well, it seemslike there are a lot of vacant buildings downtown, particularly in Aberdeen. Some are for sale, but most not. However, some of them look like they were beautiful at one point.

Aberdeen/Hoquiam are "dump towns" which no one has yet figured out what to do with. It is unlikely that you can pull the sword out of the stone, but you can unadvisedly try.

Originally Posted by chricurtis

Secondly, with a well protected harbor, one would think there would be a marina with oodles of boats, everything from leisure craft to sailing vessels to sport fishing, but I can see anything like that from topical maps.

Grays Harbor is a commercial harbor, not a recreational harbor. Grays Harbor serves Washington well as a port to ship off controversial military items and more.

Look, they are battling over a homeless camp: Aberdeen finalizing purchase of riverfront homeless camp land | The Daily World

Originally Posted by chricurtis

third, crime rates seems unusually high compared to other cities inWashington of the same size.

No jobs. Washington State had to intervene to try to save Grays Harbor Community Hospital from its $20 MM debt to Timberland Bank. There's mostly Medicaid patients there, and in Port Angeles' failing hospital too.

Good luck Adventurer!

[texasdiver]

There is an absolute tidal wave of tech money in the Seattle area. If there was some profit and future to investing in the Greys Harbor area then people would already be doing it. Instead that money is flowing elsewhere in the state, to the Columbia Valley fruit and winery areas like Wenatchee and to other Puget Sound cities like Bellingham. Your basic problems as I see them are:

1. Too far away to be any kind of bedroom community for the more thriving areas of Puget Sound

2. No local economy to support that much existing urban infrastructure. The mill jobs are long gone and not coming back. Nothing really has appeared to replace them

3. Not an attractive retirement/tourist destination because it is not on the coast but tucked well inland at the head of a large bay. People who want that will buy and invest half an hour further west in Westport or Ocean Shores or the other beach towns on the coast, not Hoquiam or Aberdeen

My guess is that the area will continue to hollow out over the next decades as there is no longer any real economic reason for those towns to exist, at least in their former size. It's not where I'd choose to invest money.

If you want the ambiance of the Greys Harbor area but in a more thriving and economically vibrant area I'd suggest looking a bit further south to Astoria where you will get the same weather and find a formerly industrial seaport town but one that is considerably more thriving.

[CrazyDonkey]

If there is an equivalence, it would be to Longview, not Astoria. Both old mill towns...

While I pointed out some of the positives, I didn't ignore the negatives, which are real.

While A/H are not on the ocean, they are only ~20 miles from the ocean beaches, and are close to Olympic National Park, Wynoochee River/Lake, and many other recreational opportunities. Unlike Ocean Shores and the North Beach area, they've got reliable/affordable high-speed Internet (including gigabit connections).

Population has decreased. When I lived there in the 1950s, Aberdeen/Hoquiam were over 30,000 in population, but are now around 24,000. The county population is around 72,000. Assuming that everyone living there is on Medicaid is a gross exaggeration.

Both Aberdeen and Hoquiam have nice and not so nice areas. Much of the homelessness and property crime is in "the flats" (floodplain), not up on "the Hill", where the old mansions are located. Property values have recovered significantly from their bottoms, but still offer bargains compared to the Puget Sound basin. For instance (all in good areas, most renovated, none run-down "fixers"):

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2...?fullpage=true

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6...?fullpage=true

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1...?fullpage=true

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/4...?fullpage=true

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3...?fullpage=true

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8...?fullpage=true

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1...?fullpage=true

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2...?fullpage=true

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1...?fullpage=true

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8...?fullpage=true

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1...?fullpage=true

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/7...?fullpage=true

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3...?fullpage=true

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/7...?fullpage=true

Money has obviously been invested in these properties, which should lead to higher tax revenues. People and families who have been priced out of the Olympia area (commutable from A/H) are looking further west for real estate values. There is a three-year action plan for downtown improvements (Three Year Action Plan – Downtown Aberdeen) - granted, the three years are about up!

[CrazyDonkey]

Here's a good employment possibility:

Local companies team with GHC to offer log truck driving course | The Daily World

Responding to an industry shortage of drivers, Grays Harbor College plans to launch a log truck driver program.

Local employers continued to ask for more consistent training to offset the retirement of existing log truck drivers and the lack of drivers entering the industry. The small group began their focus on the curriculum, which was endorsed and approved by the Grays Harbor College Instructional Council, the State Board for Community and Technical Colleges and the Northwest Commission on Colleges and Universities.

The training is a 60-hour, three-credit program for drivers who hold a current Class A Commercial Drivers License or students who complete the college’s CDL program.

The following companies were instrumental in the program development: B & M Logging, Bucks Logging, Weyerhaeuser, Port Blakely, ENB Logging, Washington Contract Loggers Association, MacMillan Logging, McKay and Sons, Washington Trucking Associations and R.L. Smith Logging.