Do areas near a papermill cause health problems? (Everett, Longview: homes, living)

[silverfox]

Hi Bob 2008,

First of all let me say thank you to your family members and all of the wonderful people in our country that are first responders, Firefighters, Police, 911 Medics, etc.

I respectfully agree with your politically correct description of Toxic smoke, however here is the problem I have observed in the real world senerio.

1. There is a considerable variation in emissions from each wood burning fireplace depending on many factors. Even though not as dangerous as the "brew you mentioned", it is still not good for the ol' lungs to breath it on a fairly regular basis. Take a look up your chimmney stack and tell me what you see.
Thats only a portion of what is being produced by the combustion process.
It is very easy to be situated in a location where your upstream neighbors can dump on you all day and night during colder weather in particular. If you don't have this problem consider yourself fortunate.

2. I can tell you for sure that what comes out of many people's stack is not all wood emissions. Many burn there Garbage or anything else they want to get rid of with out the expense or trouble to do it properly.
That may be anything that will burn such as the materials you mentioned in your reply. I wish it were not happening that way but it does.
To me it is just another form of dangerous second hand smoke only potentially in much larger volumes.

Fotunately I am not a smoker and at 70 years young I do not have any breathing problems, but for those that do, this is a serious issue in there daily living and they need all the help they can get.

It just doesn't seem right to lite up and ignore what the consiquences to others are. I have always lived my life with respect and concern for other people and all living things. Seems hard to find these qualities in this day and age.
I quit burning our fireplace 45 years ago without having someone complain to me, or have the Government pass a law to control my selfish habits.

There may be some cases where this burning can be justified, but in most situations it is just the easyway out IMHO.

Silverfox

[Bob2008]

Originally Posted by silverfox

1. There is a considerable variation in emissions from each wood burning fireplace depending on many factors. Even though not as dangerous as the "brew you mentioned", it is still not good for the ol' lungs to breath it on a fairly regular basis. Take a look up your chimmney stack and tell me what you see. Thats only a portion of what is being produced by the combustion process.
It is very easy to be situated in a location where your upstream neighbors can dump on you all day and night during colder weather in particular. If you don't have this problem consider yourself fortunate.

2. I can tell you for sure that what comes out of many people's stack is not all wood emissions. Many burn there Garbage or anything else they want to get rid of with out the expense or trouble to do it properly. That may be anything that will burn such as the materials you mentioned in your reply. I wish it were not happening that way but it does. To me it is just another form of dangerous second hand smoke only potentially in much larger volumes.

I absolutely agree with both of your points. I was only pointing out that there is normally a huge difference between the two types of emissions.

But yes, I agree that it's still pollution. Some pollutants are just more toxic than others. Kind of like comparing nuclear waste to oil based paint. Both are toxic. One is just significantly more toxic than the other.

[mark6052]

Maybe we should shut down all the papermills since we can type on the computer, and use electric heat from all the wind power generators. the US can do all these great things for the world enviroment so countries like china can pollute the heck out of it.

[the dufferz]

Originally Posted by mark6052

Maybe we should shut down all the papermills since we can type on the computer, and use electric heat from all the wind power generators. the US can do all these great things for the world enviroment so countries like china can pollute the heck out of it.

there is a interesting point here. Why is this papermill still going? I recall the promise that computers were going to make us a paperless society. What happened. Maybe they make toilet paper. don't know of any computer that can replace that

[diggitydot]

Originally Posted by the dufferz

there is a interesting point here. Why is this papermill still going? I recall the promise that computers were going to make us a paperless society. What happened. Maybe they make toilet paper. don't know of any computer that can replace that

I'm not sure of all the details of the paper industry, but some documents still need to exist in hard copy and not digitally. (Like contracts and legal papers, etc.)

However, the paper industry is in a decline. The Georgia Pacific mill in Camas has announced layoff after layoff during the last several years. Partially because their older, out-of-date machinery makes the Camas plant less competitive with other more modern facilities, and partly because of the industry downturn, in general.

I think we'll always have paper, in some fashion...as Dufferz has so eloquently pointed out. But we have a different need than in the past so those manufacturing centers who do not update with the technology will be left in the dust of their competitors who elect to do so.

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by the dufferz

there is a interesting point here. Why is this papermill still going? I recall the promise that computers were going to make us a paperless society. What happened. Maybe they make toilet paper. don't know of any computer that can replace that

you will note that the computer manufacturers had to get into "printers' to sustain profitability. (wheasing from the black cloud of ink aerosal, (overspray)... cough, cough) There should be some interesting reading on the effects of paper mill air quality. Did they evacuate Fisher's Landing elementary when the kids got sick a couple yrs ago? I think it was just an accidental release of ammonia from Camas. Don't remember any long term issues. The mills are quite regulated and monitored, but as with trains and transportation, accidents do happen.

be careful.

[lady_jet]

I grew up in the papermill central aka Kimberly-Clark's main office and their first papermill is. Yes, there pollution from papermills can be dangerous to your health depending on how compliant the papermill is with federal regulations.

Does the papermill spew out smoke that smells like rotten eggs or worse? It could be whatever's in the smoke is causing your allergy problems...

I lived in Western WA for 20 years. I had mold/mildew allergies, though no other ones. I live in Walla Walla now and have different allergies, but there's no mold or mildew allergies, thank goodness.

I'd suggest you have a Veterinarian check your cat to find out what's bothering your her/him. If could be mold/mildew or something else. If it is mold/mildew, then that's what is bothering you as well. There are tons of allergens in the world, and many different types of molds and mildews. You'll probably have to figure out what you need to take to fix that problem. You'd need to do more testing on yourselves to find out precisely what the allergens are. But have your cat checked first just to make sure you're on the right track as s/he'll have to have something as well, but at least you know it's allergens or it if's the papermill. It sounds like you all started having problems at the same time so it could be either.

Not sure if it's cheaper to have the cat done first or to have you done first, but I'd say the cat is cheaper. Once you know what your cat has, you can steer your medical provider to the same area of problems without as much work to do.

Yes, burning wood is cheaper, but it does not cause as many problems as the chemicals that are used to make paper and that is *IF*they are in compliance with the EPA standards. Many times, the papermills will pay the fines for noncompliance with those standards rather than fix the problems because it's cheaper. For instance, Kimberly Clark in Neenah, WI, has not been in compliance to clean up the mercury poisoning in the Fox River and Lake Winnebago that the river feeds into, but they pay the fines for being in noncompliance each year and they're not the only ones that do this.

We use wood to heat the house every day with two wood stoves. It's not a folly when you consider that when we don't use the wood stoves, the electricity bill is over $250 each month with the heat at 64 degrees. When we use the woodl stove, the heat is around a liveable 68 degrees and all 99% of the smoke is vented out through the stack, so it's not nearly as bad as some of the other things you can do to heat your house and still afford to live there and buy it.

What's worse: burning wood that causes smoke in the atmosphere or a papermill that's putting chemicals in the air and water that causes deformities, cancer, problems with brain, lung, heart, etc., and allergies in people, animals, fish, and probably plants as well.

Smoke from a cigarette or cigar are much worse than wood smoke and it doesn't have the tars and nicotines that cigarette or cigar smoke have either, but people keep smoking them.

Also, Papermills don't just make paper: Kleenex and other facial tissues, disposable diapers, TP, paper tarps and garments for painters, Paper for wrapping meat and fish with plastic coating, paper for printers, tissue paper for wrapping gifts, Christmas and other wrapping paper, etc. There is tons of paper products out there from cardboard to the thinnest paper possible and for many uses. On yes, and don't forget one other of the polluters, the photographic industry with their dangerous developers and all their types of papers.

Until people start backing up their computers on a regular basis, as well as keeping their records in such a way that they're all in some place that they can be found, there is no way we'll ever be a paperless society in our lifetime.

[papermvict]

Originally Posted by lovekaj

Has anyone living in Camas, Tacoma, Longview or any other areas near a papermill noticed any effects on their health as a result? We recently moved near a papermill and our cat has started wheezing, my husband now occasionally needs to take asthma medicine to breathe properly (he never had asthma before) and I have been noticing some slight congestion in my lungs recently. Could this be due to the papermill or possibly from the molds in this damp region? Any insight?

I have the same problem in charleston sc ,mold allergies & dust from house,I dont think so ......my symptoms are very simular to your husband, and your cat. this papermill does stink and I believe people are trying to hide the problems that it persist. Records show that this area has recieved a grade " f " from bad air pollutants. I belive the original residents of this area dont realize their health disadvantage as well as I do ,from being here only two years,a drastic change from fresh air breathing.

[Sharon06]

Living here in the Lewis Clark Valley near Potlatch we have a lot of respiratory problems. They say that what they put in the air is safe, but I am not convinced. High amount of cancer reported as well.

[NewNorthwesterner]

I don't live in Tacoma but started working there in October. This is my fourth sinus infection since I've worked there. I don't think that everyone is affected by the definite pollutants that the paper mill gives off. But when combined with the oil refining factory, paint producing factory and sensitivity to allergies, it can become a problem for many with respiratory problems. I noticed when my allergies started acting up, I would become increasingly congested due to all of the pollutants in the air. I wonder if anyone knows what type of pollutants these factories give off? I am allergic to Sulfa medications and wonder if that "sulfur smell" of rotting eggs, given off by the paper mill is making me continuously ill.