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Old 05-16-2009, 12:26 PM
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Location: Richmond VA
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Exclamation Just to put things in perspective..

hi I am planning on moving here within the year. I have been looking on here for a while and reading threads like "Seattle Freeze" and such. I am from Richmond, VA and my experience here makes the "Seattle Freeze" sound laughable. My experience here has been nothing but rudeness. I read all the time about "bad parts" of the state but according to the CityData info for Seattle there seems to be hardly anything to complain about? When I match it up with Richmond VA's CityData stats it is like night and day.

I was just wondering am I correct to assume this? I realize CityData is a bit out of date seemingly so have things gotten wors there? I don't want to go there being naive, I have done research but it doesn't add up. Why are people here saying one thing and the stats are saying another? Are you guys just complaining over little stuff or is ut really serious? I mean even if it is "bad" there it is no where near as bad as here right (statistically speaking) because that is where I am being lost in translation at.

Can someone give me some detailed insight, so far I have not seen this here. What I consider not safe seems to differ from the term people in Washington use. "Gangs" and break ins seem the be the only major offenses right? It does not seem like murder or homicide is always in the headlines every night for your local news, like here. So this seems good to me, how can it possibly be bad there? Can someone explain this to me please?

Last edited by Anders15; 05-16-2009 at 12:45 PM..
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Old 05-16-2009, 05:21 PM
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It's not bad here...perspective as you said is key. "Dangerous" streets or "bad" neighborhoods here would be welcomed in many other parts of the country.
The Seattle Freeze deal can be summed up by saying folks here can often be polite but not friendly. Basically, everyone's nice to each other, but it can be tough to make true friends. Again, that's all perspective, but oddly seems to be the case often.
There really isn't much to complain about here.
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Old 05-16-2009, 08:50 PM
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Ron, you ask some excellent, and insightful, questions. I'm sorry that some angry people choose to gripe and yell rather than make their own lives happier.

This is my persepctive --

I spent my first 30 years in NYC, where one learns infinite variations on the theme of fear: rudeness, confrontation, antagonism, humiliation, and flat-out possible danger. Then I worked for 11 years in Tokyo, where the cultural norm is to smile at everyone and touch (in every sense) no one. In your face, vs. nowhere near your space.

In NYC, there were many "slum" neighborhoods, gang neighborhoods, dangerous neighborhoods that everyone knew to stay out of for personal safety. In Tokyo there was no such thing and meandering at any time of the day or night was completely safe just about anywhere except right on the many train tracks. Safety is at home, vs. safety is everywhere.

Then I settled in Seattle. The first time I was shocked out of assuming that Americans were all pretty much like New Yorkers I was standing on a street corner in downtown Seattle on 4th Avenue, waiting for the light to change in mid-December (rainy season). I'm Caucasian. A much younger African American man in his early 20s standing near me, also waiting, suddenly said to me, "Can you believe this sunshine??!" And he grinned to the sky. His ease and friendliness instantly released me forever from any lingering expectations that "race relations" here would be the same life-or-death struggle I had grown used to in New York.

In my perspective, here people of all colors, sizes, backgrounds, accents, and whatnots, really do live and let live. That is the local culture. I'm certain there are many people who are nevertheless angry and choose to behave rudely; I'm also certain that many transplanted people bring unrelaxed social assumptions and expectations with them and keep hammering here even though the local culture doesn't welcome divisiveness or pay attention to such divisive behavior.

I say all that to tell you that this is a different place. It's not at all like going back in time 20 years when you enter Montana, as they say. It's very up to date here, pretty well educated, pretty articulate, and pretty creative. As a result, there aren't shantytowns, or shacks, or slums, or nasty scary bad-bad-bad places here that I've ever encountered or heard about in my 20+ years here.

I agree completely with the previous post by mthomson that folks here definitely are polite and even warm no matter under what circumstances you meet them -- and also they're not necessarily friendly in the sense of giving out lots of invitations to backyard barbeques. It's not "clubby" here. It's not "chummy". It's not a bunch of people paying breathtaking attention to others' behavior, clothes, cars, children, houses, lawns, etc. etc. etc. The local culture doesn't care very much about comparisons, let alone about being nosey. (As you've noticed, that's not the case when people are spewing anonymously on internet forums, where they can waste their energies whining and smashing. But I suppose that's pretty harmless, too. (And we can scroll past those posts and not read them. The kind of atmosphere I came from in New York had people yelling the same trash into others' faces.)

If you live a life here that doesn't involve trafficking in drugs or other illegal commodities you're not likely to ever have even a hint that any "gang" might exist. I've never once seen any person, or any event, before my own eyes, that looked like anything criminal or malicious, except the dangerous speeding some drivers do on the highways. I think I saw someone start to pocket something in a store several years ago, but I wasn't sure. I once had a daily bus driver on my commute who kept choosing to be cold and silent to his passengers; but in time he was transferred. So if I'm one of those angry people, I'll get on City-Data and rant about how "rude" and "evil" and "completely unprofessional" those bus drivers are, right? Everything is in the eye of the beholder, isn't it?

Crimes against persons here are unusual here. Crimes against possessions are usually the way crime goes here. Which is relaxing, isn't it? I'd rather lose my car any day than get stabbed... Which encourages me to be smart: never ever ever have an unlocked door on my car or home, or leave anything at all visible in my car or through my windows at home, or put my handbag down anywhere, or walk away from my suitcase at the airport. You know -- all the usual "street smart" things.

I feel safe, every moment, every day, every year. My homes have never been broken into. My car was broken into once, many years ago, and the police told me it was a Tacoma meth gang that was hitting several cities. They ruined my tape deck, but couldn't do anything else because I had The Club on my wheel. Seems pretty tame to me...

Ron, there is a difference in substance between an old city like all those on the east coast that have evolved through dense populations that have competed for a long time while they paved their paradises, on the one hand -- and a place where virgin forests are still cleaning the air, bears and mountain lions roam free, and the gentle breeze from the Pacific touches and cleanses everything every day. A romantic view? Maybe it's a matter of perspective?
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Old 05-16-2009, 11:25 PM
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mthomson and allforcats are both right. I'm an east coast native who's been here for 31 years. At one point I lived in the Central District where there were crack houses nearby, but nobody approached me or bothered me or robbed me, or even offered to sell me crack. I could just observe it going on.
Murders do happen here, and innocent bystanders sometimes get caught up in it. But the vast majority of crimes here are property crimes and not violent crimes. There are gangs and there are gang shootings in the Seattle area. But for the most part you'd have to go out of your way to find them and then have them shoot you.
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Old 05-17-2009, 12:54 AM
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Wonderful post, AFC! (I'd stand up and applaud but I worked in the yard all day and I can barely move--however it was a blissful day, so no complaints.)
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Old 05-19-2009, 10:10 AM
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WOW! Thanks for the insight allforcats!
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Old 05-19-2009, 10:15 AM
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If you're coming from Richmond, you'll be just fine. In fact, this place will probably be a little slice of heaven for you. If you were coming from some other places, it would probably not be a good adjustment. So all in all, I'd say you'll be fine.
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Old 05-19-2009, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allforcats View Post
Ron, there is a difference in substance between an old city like all those on the east coast that have evolved through dense populations that have competed for a long time while they paved their paradises, on the one hand -- and a place where virgin forests are still cleaning the air, bears and mountain lions roam free, and the gentle breeze from the Pacific touches and cleanses everything every day. A romantic view? Maybe it's a matter of perspective?
Local News | Search for bear moves to Shoreline | Seattle Times Newspaper

The bear died, sadly...
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Old 05-20-2009, 04:46 PM
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Uhhh, actually no he didn't. Not in your link, and not in real life. He's traveling north and east, toward the forests and mountains at last Fish & Wildlife reports this morning.
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Old 05-20-2009, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allforcats View Post
Uhhh, actually no he didn't. Not in your link, and not in real life. He's traveling north and east, toward the forests and mountains at last Fish & Wildlife reports this morning.
Really? I thought he did... I skimmed a more recent article that said he did... Well I'm glad that's not the case!
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