when is snowfall not snowfall??? (climate, snow storm, warm, ice)

[Panks]

when it doesn't stick on the ground!

I guess a snowflake has 3 options

1) melt right away
2) hang around
3) turn to ice

So where do I get the #s for inches of snow that sticks? whats it called? sticky snow??? sorry, getting giddy from looking at weather website after website

what else is important to know if moving to a snowy climate? wind speed?

does snow only melt if temps are above 32F?
How many inches start to really affect your lifestyle? ie too much snow to drive through? or must have 4WD?

is there a service you can call to clear the driveway or do single women all over the US go out and shovel their driveways???

thanks for any and all date!

[DaninEGF]

I will take a stab at anwering your question....I am a meteorologist and live in a cold and often snowy place (northwest Minnesota/northeast North Dakota).
Where I live and work...we dont get lots of snow....about 45 inches a year on average but it is quite cold in the winter so melting is very minimal. Snow is usually on the ground from about mid November til late March. And we often have several stretches of below zero degrees for highs during most winters...but not all. The big thing up here is wind which blows the snow around a lot.

For your questions....as for 4WD I think it really depends on how much travelling you will have to do. In town or city driving 4WD is not necessary due to streets are plowed/sanded....but front wheel drive is needed for sure. 4WD would be beneficial if you travel in the country a lot or you live in a hilly area. What snowfall starts to impact people...reallly depends on where you live. I was born and raised in Kentucky and down there 2-3 inches is a common mark for mayheim. Up north...6 or 8 inches is the commom mark where enough snow to hamper driving, etc. These are not magic numbers but generally what the Natl Weather Service uses for issuance of warnings.

Up north you will find many snow clearing services that residents and businesses can pay. Usually based on the number of times they come...and most companies have a set number of inches in their contract with you before they would come and plow or shovel you out. But a lot of folks just get out their shovel or snowblower and do it themselves. Great exercise!

Now...NWS defines snowfall as the amount of snow that falls (to the tenth of an inch)...and snow depth the amount of snow on the ground (to the nearest inch). Snow depths are officially done in an open area and on grass. But in the early part of the season the ground can be warm still and the snow will melt initially upon contact. Thus you can have a snowfall of 3 inches but snow depth of 1 inch. NWS climate reports report snowfall and snow depth daily. Most of the web sites on weather about different locations look at snowfall. Snow does compact on the ground and does sublimate some as well that is why snow depth can lower even though you are very cold.

Snow can melt below 32F....all depends on sun angle and time of the year. In March snow can melt with sun on it at quite cold temperatures....I would say 25 or so. That is without any chemicals applied, which does lower the melting point of the ice crystals. So on parkings lots with applied salt and sand you can start melting with the sun out with the temps in the teens in later part of the winter.

I love winter season myself....the beauty of it amazes me. Though digging yourself out after the city comes by and plows the end of your driveway is not the most fun as it is usually compacted ice/snow and snowblower doesnt like it

Dan

[bigreez]

snow is not bad as people from the south think.You need to wory more about wind and cold at the same time. If you know how to put chains on a 2wd and have some experience that is all most people need on public roads.Most people that dont have experience in winter driving wreck becaus they can not stop ,4x4 wont stop you any better than a 2wd. But if you are in a rual area 4x4 is defenetly handy, but antilock brakes are a must for the first timer and they have been standard for 10 years. Some areas have classes for winer driveing mite look in to it. Snow starts to stick when the ground frezes but that depends on air temp and volume of snow, But if the ground is warm snow usuly melts fast.

[Panks]

Thank you so much DaninEFG, I learned a lot from your post! I never even knew there was such a thing as a snow blower! I have enough trouble with a weedwacker, but I'd definitely like to try the snowblower.

I am so glad you told me there are services that you can contract to shovel you out! I almost didn't ask because I thought it sounded like a woosie Californian idea

2 bits of good news about the salt and snow melting even below freezing!

So does that mean that if I ran out and threw some salt down on the driveway before or even during a snow storm, less of it might stick the next morning as compared to my neighbor? ( I guess I could throw some salt down for them too ) I think I'd rather go out a few times and throw salt in a snowstorm than have to shovel my way out in the morning!

So wind+snow=bad driving conditions and fluffy snow??...so maybe more chance that it will melt quicker?

ok back to the weather sites to look up snow DEPTH...the magic word..thanks a mill

[DaninEGF]

Originally Posted by Panks

Thank you so much DaninEFG, I learned a lot from your post! I never even knew there was such a thing as a snow blower! I have enough trouble with a weedwacker, but I'd definitely like to try the snowblower.

I am so glad you told me there are services that you can contract to shovel you out! I almost didn't ask because I thought it sounded like a woosie Californian idea

2 bits of good news about the salt and snow melting even below freezing!

So does that mean that if I ran out and threw some salt down on the driveway before or even during a snow storm, less of it might stick the next morning as compared to my neighbor? ( I guess I could throw some salt down for them too ) I think I'd rather go out a few times and throw salt in a snowstorm than have to shovel my way out in the morning!

So wind+snow=bad driving conditions and fluffy snow??...so maybe more chance that it will melt quicker?

ok back to the weather sites to look up snow DEPTH...the magic word..thanks a mill

Glad to have helped.. About the snow clearing services....I would imagine this would depend on where you lived... the farther southern you go more into the central parts of the U.S. say from Kansas east to Kentucky the amounts of snow may not be enough for someone to have a business just for clearing snow. I know many folks up here that have a snow clearing business go into landscaping and lawn mowing business during the summer.

In regards to salt, yes if you throw salt down onto a pavement before it snows it will most definitely help to reduce the amount of ice/snow accumulation. In some parts of the country where it is a bit warmer than where I live, they pre-salt the roads before a big storm. Up here often temps are too cold for salt to be effective (I forgot what temp that is) but we use sand mostly to help with traction and plenty of it is spread around at intersections. As the prev poster said....4WD does not help stopping and this is where some of the worst accidents happen. People being too confident at intersections and putting their brakes on too fast and sliding through one. Anti-lock breaks work great and help out. Usually it takes the first few snowfalls before people up here to re-learn winter driving skills.

Snowblowers are pretty essential especially in the northeast and Great Lakes where some areas get a lot of snow. Even up here it is useful as it reduces the time outside in below zero weather in clearing the driveway. The problem sometimes is shooting the snow high enough to get over the snow banks along the driveway.

As for fluffy snow....it will tend to melt a bit faster because its liquid content is less and less heat is needed. But fluff snow mainly compacts more efficiently in the long run and is real easy to remove compared to the wet junk.

Snow and winter is something not to be worried about....we up here take normal precautions and if travelling between cities have a winter survival kit always just in case. I have been stranded a few times myself and have had to get rides to the nearest truckstop, etc for the night. We all help one another out. In my neighborhood where I live, it is not unusual to snowblow each others driveway, whoever is out first. Neighborly thing to do.

Dan

[DaninEGF]

Must not forget, that up this far north many vehicles have those funny cords hanging from their front grill. If your car is parked outside in very cold weather many people will plug in their car to keep the oil/engine a bit warmer for easier starting. We have posts at work with outlets which we can use an extension cord to plug into the engine block heaters. Only really needed in the most extreme cold events of the winter...not everyday. I usually use one if below -15F or -20F for many hours. O/W cars with good batteries will be fine.

Dan

[Panks]

Thanks Bigreez for the car info. Thats really a huge relief that I wont have to sell my car and buy a 4wd. I was about 7 the last time I saw my dad put chains on a car. All I remember was that it took forever and he had to get it flat behind the tire then back up and he kept going back and forth over and over! I dont know if he was just bad at it or if its really as difficult as it looked but whenever he said he had to get out and put chains on, everyone in the car groaned.

Is it still the same process or have they invented something easier ...like snap-on chains or elastic chains...or something like that?

Do you have to put chains on all 4 tires or is 2 enough?

Thank you!

[ajf131]

If you ask me, snowfall isn't snowfall when the snow doesn't stick. I personally love snow. St. Louis used to get lots of snow in the winter. As a little kid I remember building snowmen every winter on multiple occasions. Now due to global warming our winters have been slightly milder. still, we get more than enough good snowstorms to satisfy my appetites. St. Louis still gets a significant amount of snow, not like the Upper Midwest but definitely enough to classify our winters as real winters. 2 to 3 inch snowstorms are quite common and we are also capable of getting a foot of snow though that does not happen too often. I'm hoping one of these days maybe to leave the Lower Midwest and settle in the Upper Midwest. I don't mind being buried in snow personally. Winter is definitely my favorite season.

[Panks]

GRRRRRRR I can't find any snow depth maps! I've looked and looked....National Weather Service has the most difficult site to navigate. Its like following a mouse through a maze, an hour later you're totally lost and no closer to what you were looking for. Hmmm..maybe the DMV set up their website

I just wanted to see a map of annual or monthly snow depth all over the US..or even state by state...anything.

This site is great for snowfall numbers but not snow depth.
NCDC: U.S. Snow Monitoring


Anyone else knows where to look?

[ColoWeb]

Thanks DaninEGF, it was a very informative post.