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To me there is nothing particularly "temperate" about a "real summer," I'm not trying to argue that.
And I also think there's nothing temperate about a Toronto winter imho.
But you say a real summer can or should still have some cool days... Why?!?
Toronto's real winter has ZERO warm days, and our winter isn't even that severe.
We "always" go 4-6 months straight without a SINGLE high of 60 F/16 C.
Canadian's might call 50-55 F (10-12 C) in winter warmth,
but we don't really mean it's warm enough to feel good to be out in a t-shirt a few hours midday.
Maybe because you aren't in the Great Lakes,
you associate a cold, snowy winter as "normally" having some warm winter days, (60-65 F?)
but like last year, we actually went nearly 3 straight months without even a single high of 50 F. (10 C)
To me there is nothing particularly "temperate" about a "real summer," I'm not trying to argue that.
And I also think there's nothing temperate about a Toronto winter imho.
But you say a real summer can or should still have some cool days... Why?!?
Toronto's real winter has ZERO warm days, and our winter isn't even that severe.
We "always" go 4-6 months straight without a SINGLE high of 60 F/16 C.
Canadian's might call 50-55 F (10-12 C) in winter warmth,
but we don't really mean it's warm enough to feel good to be out in a t-shirt a few hours midday.
Maybe because you aren't in the Great Lakes,
you associate a cold, snowy winter as "normally" having some warm winter days, (60-65 F?)
but like last year, we actually went nearly 3 straight months without even a single high of 50 F. (10 C)
As I said, I have lived in similar, perhaps slightly colder climate than Toronto; Upstate New York (Finger Lakes). To me, a summer can still have a few cool days and still be real. It's only a few cool days, most are quite warm (the average high is still about 80°F). Also, most of the cool days (I assume in Toronto as well) were at the beginning or end of the season. But most of the time, it was still warm enough to swim in rivers or lakes and wear shorts and sandals. A place without real summer is like coastal California, Atlantic Canada, or england where the you're likely to find the heat on than the A/C, and people might wear sweaters sometimes in the middle of summer.
And, yes I can imagine what winter is like. How about a month where the temperature never went above freezing (or maybe it was 35°F ish, but still). I remember a day in the upper 40s feeling wonderful...
To me there is nothing particularly "temperate" about a "real summer," I'm not trying to argue that.
And I also think there's nothing temperate about a Toronto winter imho.
But you say a real summer can or should still have some cool days... Why?!?
Toronto's real winter has ZERO warm days, and our winter isn't even that severe.
We "always" go 4-6 months straight without a SINGLE high of 60 F/16 C.
Canadian's might call 50-55 F (10-12 C) in winter warmth,
but we don't really mean it's warm enough to feel good to be out in a t-shirt a few hours midday.
Maybe because you aren't in the Great Lakes,
you associate a cold, snowy winter as "normally" having some warm winter days, (60-65 F?)
but like last year, we actually went nearly 3 straight months without even a single high of 50 F. (10 C)
Well, 60F would be a huge departure from normal for a place that is typically below or just above freezing in the winter. In the summer, that would be like having days with highs only in the 40's or low 50's and frost warnings at night. Sure Toronto has cool some summer days, but not THAT cool.
Well, 60F would be a huge departure from normal for a place that is typically below or just above freezing in the winter. In the summer, that would be like having days with highs only in the 40's or low 50's and frost warnings at night. Sure Toronto has cool some summer days, but not THAT cool.
July 1st, 2010 high was 67 F, mostly-cloudy with 20+ mph winds ALL DAY.
At dusk it was 57 F with frequent 35 mph gusts, even my cheeks were quite uncomfortably-chilled...
"Canada Day" with fireworks just after dark, I stayed in instead to keep warm and so did many of my neighbours.
Real summer? Maybe to an eskimo.
If the cool weather was usually sunny and calm it wouldn't be that big a deal.
Usually our very cool summer weather is the result of lack of daytime heating.
Summary:
-EVERY summer (Jun-15 to Aug 20) has some weather that is quite chilly
-NO winter (Dec 15-Mar 5) ever get a single warm day (60+ F)
How can it be classic-continental-temperate if winter days are never warm,
and summer days are always periodically-cool?
To me there is nothing particularly "temperate" about a "real summer," I'm not trying to argue that.
And I also think there's nothing temperate about a Toronto winter imho.
But you say a real summer can or should still have some cool days... Why?!?
Toronto's real winter has ZERO warm days, and our winter isn't even that severe.
We "always" go 4-6 months straight without a SINGLE high of 60 F/16 C.
Canadian's might call 50-55 F (10-12 C) in winter warmth,
but we don't really mean it's warm enough to feel good to be out in a t-shirt a few hours midday.
Maybe because you aren't in the Great Lakes,
you associate a cold, snowy winter as "normally" having some warm winter days, (60-65 F?)
but like last year, we actually went nearly 3 straight months without even a single high of 50 F. (10 C)
Why not? We just happen to be far enough north where the cold fronts have at least somewhat of an effect. Still doesn't mean that the summers are not generally warm.
As far as what feels warm in the winter is really subjective. One year I remember 20 F feeling comfortable after several days of sub-zero conditions. Last year around New Year's Eve we had a day that reached 45 F and that felt mild.
July 1st, 2010 high was 67 F, mostly-cloudy with 20+ mph winds ALL DAY.
At dusk it was 57 F with frequent 35 mph gusts, even my cheeks were quite uncomfortably-chilled...
"Canada Day" with fireworks just after dark, I stayed in instead to keep warm and so did many of my neighbours.
Real summer? Maybe to an eskimo.
I remember that day too. I got windburn at work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdCanadian
Summary:
-EVERY summer (Jun-15 to Aug 20) has some weather that is quite chilly
-NO winter (Dec 15-Mar 5) ever get a single warm day (60+ F)
How can it be classic-continental-temperate if winter days are never warm,
and summer days are always periodically-cool?
As MrMarbles said, a high of 60 F would be a far departure from average during the winter in Toronto. Probably between 25 - 30 F above average. But a cool summer day in Toronto (highs in the 60s) is only 5 - 15 F below average (depending on what time of the summer it is).
Why not? We just happen to be far enough north where the cold fronts have at least somewhat of an effect. Still doesn't mean that the summers are not generally warm.
As far as what feels warm in the winter is really subjective. One year I remember 20 F feeling comfortable after several days of sub-zero conditions. Last year around New Year's Eve we had a day that reached 45 F and that felt mild.
I suppose it's "personal" for me;
being enraged at how I'm never warm in winter, and always cool in summer.
"Classic continental temperate" shouldn't have either extreme EVERY YEAR,
though I'd still prefer a reliably-warm/hot climate, which is warmer still.
I would fight tooth-and-nail to not have this climate,
though in Canada this is one of the warmest climates available; a simple relocation solves nothing.
Relatively speaking some days feel briefly warm; say for 10 minutes.
but it's never "actually" warm, that can allow me to spend an hour in a t-shirt.
If it matters to anyone,
west of the Appalachians I'd consider "classic continental temperate" to be roughly south 40 degress N and north of 36 N.
So that's like the southern Midwest, "Upper South" or the mid-Atlantic in general.
Northern limits might be cities like Indianapolis, Columbus OH and Pittsburgh.
Southern limits would be like NW Arkansas, just north of Nashville TN, Charlottesville VA etc.
Last edited by ColdCanadian; 09-25-2010 at 09:20 AM..
July 1st, 2010 high was 67 F, mostly-cloudy with 20+ mph winds ALL DAY.
At dusk it was 57 F with frequent 35 mph gusts, even my cheeks were quite uncomfortably-chilled...
"Canada Day" with fireworks just after dark, I stayed in instead to keep warm and so did many of my neighbours.
Real summer? Maybe to an eskimo.
If the cool weather was usually sunny and calm it wouldn't be that big a deal.
Usually our very cool summer weather is the result of lack of daytime heating.
Summary:
-EVERY summer (Jun-15 to Aug 20) has some weather that is quite chilly
-NO winter (Dec 15-Mar 5) ever get a single warm day (60+ F)
How can it be classic-continental-temperate if winter days are never warm,
and summer days are always periodically-cool?
I remember a 64°F day in Ithaca, NY just before July 4, but to me Ithaca had real summer. Again, you're using one day that is the exception. I wouldn't call Toronto or Ithaca a classic continental climate, though, more of a cool continental climate, as a classic continental climate should be comfortably in the Dfa range, not on the border of it.
Long Island can get 64°F days in January and in the middle of June, but not really in the middle of summer.
I remember a 64°F day in Ithaca, NY just before July 4, but to me Ithaca had real summer. Again, you're using one day that is the exception. I wouldn't call Toronto or Ithaca a classic continental climate, though, more of a cool continental climate, as a classic continental climate should be comfortably in the Dfa range, not on the border of it.
Long Island can get 64°F days in January and in the middle of June, but not really in the middle of summer.
A real summer to me has plenty of 85-94 F days mixed in.
In 2010 had maybe 15 all year?
85+ F is always rare-ish here, except in a hotter summer.
The best we have in Toronto is most days are summer-like midday, imho.
CC,
1. Toronto would be near the northern periphery of a "classic" temperate climate, so keep that in mind.
2. The classification is not based on subjective perceptions of what is "warm". 60F is a very high bar to clear during winter in a temperate climate. In NYC they are very rare. According to Weatherbase, there are 0 average days that reach above 65F in Dec, Jan and Feb. 4 such days in Nov, and 3 in March.
If you want to see 60F days during the 3 winter months, you would probably need to live somewhere south of central Virginia.
Think of it this way. You love summer and like wearing short sleeves and sandals. Pretend you also liked snow in the winter and enjoyed winter sports. Would you like living in a climate that often reaches above 40-45F even in the dead of winter? For a person like that, even a 45F degree day would be VERY warm (Dec-Feb obviously). 60F would be scorching hot.
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