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Old 10-05-2010, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Western Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehunter007 View Post
Imagine how the people in Europe, Russia, or Canada feel.

90% of the USA mainland is south of 43 north latitude…places like England, Ireland, Germany, Poland, Russia…etc are above 50 north latitude. London or Moscow are more than 700 miles north of most cities in the USA like San Francisco (38 N) or NYC (40 N). The sun angle at 35 or 40 latitude even on December 21st...has a signifcant warming effect.
At noon-ish. During the rest of the day it is much lower.

On December 21st at noon, the sun at 52°N has about 40% warming effect compared to at 42°N
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Old 10-05-2010, 12:25 PM
 
Location: USA East Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
At noon-ish. During the rest of the day it is much lower.

On December 21st at noon, the sun at 52°N has about 40% warming effect compared to at 42°N
Not real sure what you mean?

In December… the 40th parallel (NYC/Madrid/Naples/Beijing) receives about 150 cal/cm/day at the surface (+/-). Yes, this is much lower than the 600 cal/cm/day places near 40 latitude receive in June, but it never drops to zero. 10 degrees north (50 north latitude) receives about 50 cal/cm/day. It is only north of 55 latitude, that heating effect of solar radiation drops to zero in December (and only December). Of course the 10:00 Am to 2:00PM sun angle is higher, than before/after...but anyone siting in a chair facing the sun even at 9:00 Am or 3:00 Pm is receiving solar heat.

The furthur south you are the more solar energy you would receive in the cold season: Helsinki receives less than London...London less than NYC or Rome...Rome/NYC less than Cario or New Orleans...etc.
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Old 10-05-2010, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, BC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehunter007 View Post
Not real sure what you mean?

In December… the 40th parallel (NYC/Madrid/Naples/Beijing) receives about 150 cal/cm/day at the surface (+/-). Yes, this is much lower than the 600 cal/cm/day places near 40 latitude receive in June, but it never drops to zero. 10 degrees north (50 north latitude) receives about 50 cal/cm/day. It is only north of 55 latitude, that heating effect of solar radiation drops to zero in December (and only December). Of course the 10:00 Am to 2:00PM sun angle is higher, than before/after...but anyone siting in a chair facing the sun even at 9:00 Am or 3:00 Pm is receiving solar heat.

The furthur south you are the more solar energy you would receive in the cold season: Helsinki receives less than London...London less than NYC or Rome...Rome/NYC less than Cario or New Orleans...etc.

It's amazing to think that there are places in the world that get effectively 0 solar radiation in December/January can have average temperatures above freezing. I guess that is the power of ocean currents.
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Old 10-05-2010, 01:50 PM
 
Location: USA East Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deneb78 View Post
It's amazing to think that there are places in the world that get effectively 0 solar radiation in December/January can have average temperatures above freezing. I guess that is the power of ocean currents.
Hmmm, you got me with that one:

I always thought everywhere south of about 66 north latitude gets at least some solar energy 365 days a year (66 north is latitude where constant darkness prevails in winter). Even when there is cloud cover, a small amount of solar energy still reaches the land/water surface below 66 North. So a blackbody at 64 North would warm (though less so) then one at 54 or 44 North.

As far as locations that receive no solar energy in winter and have ave temps above 0 C (32 F). I don’t know? I would guess that would really be along shot. Like you say, only strongly oceanic areas (maybe). Here is solar energy annually - I would think only the places that get less 70 cal/cm/day would get zero for a few weeks in Dec/Jan. I don't think you'll find many that have average temperatures above freezing.




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Old 10-05-2010, 03:25 PM
 
Location: New York City
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Seems like northern Siberia and northwestern Canada receive more solar radiation than the UK. Price you pay for warm winters.
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Old 10-05-2010, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Perth, Western Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehunter007 View Post
Hmmm, you got me with that one:

I always thought everywhere south of about 66 north latitude gets at least some solar energy 365 days a year (66 north is latitude where constant darkness prevails in winter). Even when there is cloud cover, a small amount of solar energy still reaches the land/water surface below 66 North. So a blackbody at 64 North would warm (though less so) then one at 54 or 44 North.

As far as locations that receive no solar energy in winter and have ave temps above 0 C (32 F). I don’t know? I would guess that would really be along shot. Like you say, only strongly oceanic areas (maybe). Here is solar energy annually - I would think only the places that get less 70 cal/cm/day would get zero for a few weeks in Dec/Jan. I don't think you'll find many that have average temperatures above freezing.




.
Does that map show northeastern Australia (Pacific Coast) getting slightly more annual sun energy than the Caribbean?

I still would like to see 50-100% more annual solar energy than Toronto, in a humid climate.
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Old 10-05-2010, 07:26 PM
 
Location: USA East Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdCanadian View Post
Does that map show northeastern Australia (Pacific Coast) getting slightly more annual sun energy than the Caribbean?

I still would like to see 50-100% more annual solar energy than Toronto, in a humid climate.
It looks like it. I would guess that is due to the drier climate in NW Australia. Look at North Africa and the American Southwest. In the wet tropics, areas of lower (but not low of course) solar radiation tend to coincide where there is often convection and cumulus clouds. So, the cloudy Amazon Valley (about 120 kcal/cm) receives about the same solar radiation has San Francisco, NYC ,or Rome. Notice that the Toronto/Great Lakes area gets as much (roughly 110 ) as subtropical southern Japan, South Korea, and much of New Zealand. Thanks to the those cold but dry air masses. Now don't you love that big blue H on the weather map - lol.
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Old 10-06-2010, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Perth, Western Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehunter007 View Post
It looks like it. I would guess that is due to the drier climate in NW Australia. Look at North Africa and the American Southwest. In the wet tropics, areas of lower (but not low of course) solar radiation tend to coincide where there is often convection and cumulus clouds. So, the cloudy Amazon Valley (about 120 kcal/cm) receives about the same solar radiation has San Francisco, NYC ,or Rome. Notice that the Toronto/Great Lakes area gets as much (roughly 110 ) as subtropical southern Japan, South Korea, and much of New Zealand. Thanks to the those cold but dry air masses. Now don't you love that big blue H on the weather map - lol.
Would that mean Queensland's dry period may be sunnier and/or drier than the Caribbeans?

Their summers aren't impressive for solar radiation; I've seen the stats.
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Old 10-07-2010, 05:54 PM
 
Location: USA East Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdCanadian View Post
Would that mean Queensland's dry period may be sunnier and/or drier than the Caribbeans?
Their summers aren't impressive for solar radiation; I've seen the stats.
I think most places in Queensland (say Townsville for example) receive more precipitation than many places in the Caribbean most of the year. Kingston, Jamaica in the wettest months (July/Aug/Sept) gets about 4 to 5 inches of rainfall…while a place like Townsville or Cairns gets about 10 to 12 inches of rain per month in the wettest months. Look at the Bahamas…the Turks and Caicos are fairly dry (almost desert like)…and you know the deal with Aruba (bone dry for a tropical island). So I would guess the Caribbean (esp the eastern/northern portions)…would be more sunny and have less precip than most of Queensland.

As far as the solar map...hmm you got me. It looks like coastal Queensland gets more than 160 ...while the Caribbean gets more than 140. Maybe the map didn't cover the much smaller land areas in the Caribbean? I would really, really, be suprised if anywhere in coastal Queensland had more sun than places in the eastern Caribbean like the USVI, Jamaica, or the eastern Bahamas.
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Old 10-07-2010, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Two Rivers, Wisconsin
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I'm taking a NZ/Australia cruise in the end of Jan./Feb. 2011, cannot wait to see what it is like, so much conversation about their weather! Of course, a short trip doesn't give the full picture!

I've read reviews about this particular cruise, people saying it was cold, needed clothes for 4 seasons. I noticed (no offense intended) most people saying it was too cold were from warm climes. They said they expected warmer temps. It does cruise by the fjord national park so it would be chilly, I'm sure.
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