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Old 04-20-2011, 02:28 AM
 
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If a palm, or anything, can be grown from a seedling without any fuss then I don't think that paints a deceptive image of a place. It goes both ways, with warm places trying to create English style gardens etc.
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Old 04-20-2011, 04:58 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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I have no idea if Australia even has any native palms, but they seem fairly common everywhere except Tasmania.
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Old 04-20-2011, 06:08 AM
 
Location: motueka nz
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Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
I have no idea if Australia even has any native palms, but they seem fairly common everywhere except Tasmania.
I think there are about 70 different species.
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Old 04-20-2011, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoney63 View Post
I think they can look out of place , but wouldn't say they give a false impression. Maple trees grow well here , but I don't think anyone thinks we have an Ontario like climate.

I would grow palms where ever I lived (within reason), but fortunately can grow a good range of palms without difficulty. There are enthusiasts in the UK ,PNW,BC and other such places who have to work hard with the basic palms. 3 cheers for them I say.

South Island NZ doesn't belong in the same group as South korea, Northern Japan or coastal Norway etc. Totally different climate. Also, most of the South Island just doesn't do palms, There might be the odd one here or there, but people generally don't bother(even though they can ). They get more common from Christchurch north and are as established as european settlement. There has been recent interest in newer species, but isn't as obsessive as in some places. Our own species isn't as common as introduced ones mainly due to it's lack of frost hardiness. Palms spreading naturally and been regarded as pest plants, gives a good indication of there ultimate suitability for a region.

Most NZ gardeners don't have to try hard with the subtropical look. Our light is bright and our flora is of tropical origin. Even Florida (native flora ) would struggle to match the jungle look of much of our bush. Most of NZ's gardening history actually involves trying to create the temperate look eg- conifers, deciduous trees, Rhododendrons etc, something still deeply ingrained. Some overseas visitors have told me that such temperate plants look out of place here, something that used to upset me.(funny now that I think about it).

Sorry no pics, I haven't figured that out yet.

Looking at your weather statistics, tropical is the last thing that comes to mind. You are at a higher latitude than here, you have summer temps that don't get out of the low 70's, low sunshine levels and ocean water temps in the 60's. No way. We may have cold winters, and may not be able to grow palms as easily as you, but come here in summer and it feels more tropical than anwhere in NZ and a lot of Australia.
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Old 04-20-2011, 12:03 PM
 
Location: motueka nz
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Originally Posted by tom77falcons View Post
Looking at your weather statistics, tropical is the last thing that comes to mind. You are at a higher latitude than here, you have summer temps that don't get out of the low 70's, low sunshine levels and ocean water temps in the 60's. No way. We may have cold winters, and may not be able to grow palms as easily as you, but come here in summer and it feels more tropical than anwhere in NZ and a lot of Australia.
It's not about whether we are tropical or not. The question wasn't, who is more tropical? People on here know that Florida etc is warmer than NZ.(at least I hope they do)

What I was saying ( and I wasn't talking about Australia) is that the flora here is of tropical origin. Much of it looks tropical, more so than Florida. Much of the the forest of the US Southeast has always struck me as having a cold climate look.
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Old 04-20-2011, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoney63 View Post
It's not about whether we are tropical or not. The question wasn't, who is more tropical? People on here know that Florida etc is warmer than NZ.(at least I hope they do)

What I was saying ( and I wasn't talking about Australia) is that the flora here is of tropical origin. Much of it looks tropical, more so than Florida. Much of the the forest of the US Southeast has always struck me as having a cold climate look.
Depends on what part of the SE you are talking about. When you get higher up from the coastal plain it changes. And the SE has a lot forested areas quite high in elevation. Atlanta is at 1,000 ft above sea level, and Mt. Mitchell NC is over 6,700 ft. I agree somewhat (brown grass) about the look of the SE, and that is due to the high std deviation of the mean temps in winter. I've posted a lot about this. However, the SW of the USA, which has much lower std deviation in winter, def looks arid subtropical.

The coastal lowland SE USA is more pine forests, live oaks (green all year round), native palm species, magnolias(broadleaf evergreen but not native), cypress swamps, etc. The grass goes brown in the winter down south due to it being warm weather grass, but the forests still look green in much of the lowland south. It still depends though on how mixed with non native plants the forest is. There are non native trees like dogwood that are deciduous.

I think the moist climate makes NZ look lush. You certainly can't grow coco palms there. You have the same climate as our PNW, reference the recent climate poll for Roseburg, OR. Roseburg has very similiar winter temps to Christchurch, however Roseburg is much warmer than NZ in summer. Roseburg also is much sunnier. I've been to coastal Oregon in February and yes it is lush looking. I saw quite a few palms in Portland OR. Here's the thing, and am not being jingoistic or anything, but there pretty much isn't a climate in the world that we don't have in the USA.
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Old 04-20-2011, 04:01 PM
 
Location: motueka nz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons View Post
Depends on what part of the SE you are talking about. When you get higher up from the coastal plain it changes. And the SE has a lot forested areas quite high in elevation. Atlanta is at 1,000 ft above sea level, and Mt. Mitchell NC is over 6,700 ft. I agree somewhat (brown grass) about the look of the SE, and that is due to the high std deviation of the mean temps in winter. I've posted a lot about this. However, the SW of the USA, which has much lower std deviation in winter, def looks arid subtropical.

The coastal lowland SE USA is more pine forests, live oaks (green all year round), native palm species, magnolias(broadleaf evergreen but not native), cypress swamps, etc. The grass goes brown in the winter down south due to it being warm weather grass, but the forests still look green in much of the lowland south. It still depends though on how mixed with non native plants the forest is. There are non native trees like dogwood that are deciduous.

I think the moist climate makes NZ look lush. You certainly can't grow coco palms there. You have the same climate as our PNW, reference the recent climate poll for Roseburg, OR. Roseburg has very similiar winter temps to Christchurch, however Roseburg is much warmer than NZ in summer. Roseburg also is much sunnier. I've been to coastal Oregon in February and yes it is lush looking. I saw quite a few palms in Portland OR. Here's the thing, and am not being jingoistic or anything, but there pretty much isn't a climate in the world that we don't have in the USA.
I'm not talking climate at all(or whether we can grow coconuts) , rather the look of the vegetation. Our vegetation is tropical in origin. Evergreen is all there is. There are 2 species that are partly deciduous. but most years even they keep their leaves- I've never actually seen them lose their leaves around here. Pines/cypresses are cold climate trees to people here, lumped together with firs. Maginola grows well even in Invercargill, and is valued for it's relative "hardiness". Big glossy foliage,fast growing tree ferns ( up to 50 ft) Podocarps, Pandanus, Mangroves, even a native feather palm are typical lowland species in much of the country.

I've seen the PNW. The dry eastern side of the Cascades looked more like NZ to me, rather than the wetter western side. people can often assume all of NZ is lush and green year round. This isn't the case.

Once again, this isn't a climate comparison, rather a response to the OP question regarding the impression given by palm culture in colder climates. I've long had an interest in climates, and the US is top of the list as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 04-20-2011, 04:09 PM
 
868 posts, read 1,117,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ttad View Post
If a palm, or anything, can be grown from a seedling without any fuss then I don't think that paints a deceptive image of a place. It goes both ways, with warm places trying to create English style gardens etc.
I agree, besides I believe its easy to tell when a palm is somewhere it doesnt belong, it just looks terribly corny.
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Old 04-20-2011, 04:39 PM
 
Location: Toronto
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Originally Posted by deneb78 View Post
I think palm trees should be planted anywhere in the world that is possible. The palm genera is just such an attractive genera that it should be used whenever possible. If it were possible, I'd rip out all the deciduous trees in Vancouver and plant palms instead. Most species native to temperate zones are so bland and boring. They are either barren looking for 6 months of the year or they lack colour and vigour the way palms do. Also, since a lot of people who live in temperate zones can't always go away to somewhere warm and sunny on vacation, they should be able to bring a bit of the tropics/subtropics to them.
Isn't your "native" vegetation and more generally that of the PNW, mostly evergreen conifers though, like Douglas fir etc. rather than deciduous forest? You guys have big trees that make eastern trees look like deciduous overgrown shrubs by comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoney63 View Post
It's not about whether we are tropical or not. The question wasn't, who is more tropical? People on here know that Florida etc is warmer than NZ.(at least I hope they do)

What I was saying ( and I wasn't talking about Australia) is that the flora here is of tropical origin. Much of it looks tropical, more so than Florida. Much of the the forest of the US Southeast has always struck me as having a cold climate look.
I agree that New Zealand seems to look the most stereotypical tropical-like of non-tropical or temperate climates in vegetation, at least from photos I've seen.

But could it be the look of deciduous trees characteristic of the northeast extending pretty far south in the US that gives the "cold climate" look you describe -- ie. trees that give "fall colour" before dropping their leaves like maples or oaks are still found in places with mild winters and very hot humid summers like Georgia or Alabama.

I remember maps from geography class when I was in school often showed "deciduous forest" as a shaded area from area on the map, starting in southern Ontario, the Great Lakes area and New England in the north down into Florida (perhaps excluding southern Florida as "tropical vegetation").
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Old 04-20-2011, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Toronto
3,295 posts, read 6,988,462 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deneb78 View Post
I think palm trees should be planted anywhere in the world that is possible. The palm genera is just such an attractive genera that it should be used whenever possible. If it were possible, I'd rip out all the deciduous trees in Vancouver and plant palms instead. Most species native to temperate zones are so bland and boring. They are either barren looking for 6 months of the year or they lack colour and vigour the way palms do. Also, since a lot of people who live in temperate zones can't always go away to somewhere warm and sunny on vacation, they should be able to bring a bit of the tropics/subtropics to them.
Oh yeah, and you guys do have one native species of broadleaf evergreen over there Pacific Madrone, right?

I think that's the only native evergreen tree in Canada that's not a needleleaf/conifer that if I'm not mistaken.
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