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Many palm trees grow easily in Oregon coast (from 42N at Oregon-California border to 46N at Oregon-Washington border) and valleys (zone 9a and 9b). I saw many of them here. I met a woman, she planted a canary island palm in 1954 and it is still there at 20 feet tall. I have seen many in Washington too.
You could even see zone 10 in Northern California coast 100 miles south of Oregon-California border (very little strip) AND if you zoom really really close, theres even zone 10 in Oregon!!! RIGHT ABOVE California (resize the image to enlarge it so you could see it), in Brookings, Oregon (famous for banana belt effect, gets to 70s more often in winter than summer due to how Brookings face to coast in South direction rather than West direction). General picture shows that West coast at coast rarely get cold.
I think palm trees should be planted anywhere in the world that is possible. The palm genera is just such an attractive genera that it should be used whenever possible. If it were possible, I'd rip out all the deciduous trees in Vancouver and plant palms instead. Most species native to temperate zones are so bland and boring. They are either barren looking for 6 months of the year or they lack colour and vigour the way palms do. Also, since a lot of people who live in temperate zones can't always go away to somewhere warm and sunny on vacation, they should be able to bring a bit of the tropics/subtropics to them.
This was the position the English took back in the Victorian era. Many of the first collectors in England wanted a way to combat the cool cloudy climate, and palms provided a tropical flair to early English gardens. It seems that those in the temperate zone are looking for not only the physical change to the environment by planting palms, but a physiological outlet for coping with the time of low sun.
I admit I’m really confounded: A palm tree in Miami or Los Angeles looks like it fits into the environment (both man-made and natural) and a palm in London, NYC, or the PNW, with a sky that can often looks more “mid latitude”, along with buildings that have a different theme then sunbelt buildings, seems out of place. On the other hand, the ability to dabble and grow palms in areas seems very interesting as well. At the same time is it getting crazy? People are now planting cold hardy palms in suburban Montreal, Moscow, the Upper Midwest of the USA, Alaska, far North China...etc and going to extreme lengthes to overwinter them.
If palms are grown everywhere, does it give the false persepctive that there is less difference between coastal Oregon, Atlantic France, or Long Island, NY…than say Brisbane, Hong Kong, or New Orleans?
This was the position the English took back in the Victorian era. Many of the first collectors in England wanted a way to combat the cool cloudy climate, and palms provided a tropical flair to early English gardens. It seems that those in the temperate zone are looking for not only the physical change to the environment by planting palms, but a physiological outlet for coping with the time of low sun.
I admit I’m really confounded: A palm tree in Miami or Los Angeles looks like it fits into the environment (both man-made and natural) and a palm in London, NYC, or the PNW, with a sky that can often looks more “mid latitude”, along with buildings that have a different theme then sunbelt buildings, seems out of place. On the other hand, the ability to dabble and grow palms in areas seems very interesting as well. At the same time is it getting crazy? People are now planting cold hardy palms in suburban Montreal, Moscow, the Upper Midwest of the USA, Alaska, far North China...etc and going to extreme lengthes to overwinter them.
If palms are grown everywhere, does it give the false persepctive that there is less difference between coastal Oregon, Atlantic France, or Long Island, NY…than say Brisbane, Hong Kong, or New Orleans?
I think palm trees should be planted anywhere in the world that is possible. The palm genera is just such an attractive genera that it should be used whenever possible. If it were possible, I'd rip out all the deciduous trees in Vancouver and plant palms instead. Most species native to temperate zones are so bland and boring. They are either barren looking for 6 months of the year or they lack colour and vigour the way palms do.
I honestly don't see the appeal of palms. They're interesting novelty but I much prefer northern temperate vegetation (at least when they have leaves on them). The leaves on palm trees are rather sparse. I want real forest trees.
I love Palms, they're very rare here () but they always catch my attention. I wouldn't say they look out of place in a city like NYC because not all of the city is urban and corporate, there's actually places where they'd look very appropriate (yet they'd stick out like soar thumbs in Winter). Don't need a whole palm habitat but I wouldn't mind them being a popular choice for an ornamental plant.
It's not really deceptive because it really is a warm climate MOST of the year.
My absolute favorite palm is the Washingtonia, wish they could survive here with no protection like the Trachycarpus (Windmill) species. At least they look related.
This was the position the English took back in the Victorian era. Many of the first collectors in England wanted a way to combat the cool cloudy climate, and palms provided a tropical flair to early English gardens. It seems that those in the temperate zone are looking for not only the physical change to the environment by planting palms, but a physiological outlet for coping with the time of low sun.
I admit I’m really confounded: A palm tree in Miami or Los Angeles looks like it fits into the environment (both man-made and natural) and a palm in London, NYC, or the PNW, with a sky that can often looks more “mid latitude”, along with buildings that have a different theme then sunbelt buildings, seems out of place. On the other hand, the ability to dabble and grow palms in areas seems very interesting as well. At the same time is it getting crazy? People are now planting cold hardy palms in suburban Montreal, Moscow, the Upper Midwest of the USA, Alaska, far North China...etc and going to extreme lengthes to overwinter them.
If palms are grown everywhere, does it give the false persepctive that there is less difference between coastal Oregon, Atlantic France, or Long Island, NY…than say Brisbane, Hong Kong, or New Orleans?
As much as I would love to see palms grown everywhere, I think it only makes sense and is realistic to grow them where they would not need protection most of the time to survive the winter. Growing palms in places like Montreal or Minneapolis requires too much effort and wasted resources and consequently I don't believe they should be grown there outdoors (indoor palms are better for these locations). I think palms should be only be grown outdoors in USDA zone 7 and higher. Places like NYC, Washington DC, Seattle, Vancouver, Dublin and Paris are temperate cities in which palms should be planted in much more abundance.
I don't think palms necessarily look out of place in temperate zones as long as the landscaping is done properly. It helps if you have southern or Mediterranean architecture but it's not a requirement as palms always liven up the landscape if planted properly.
I think palm trees do give somewhat a false perspective that temperate and subtropical locales are similar and I think this is the whole point of planting palm trees in temperate latitudes. As I said before, most people here can't always afford or take time to go on vacation to tropical or subtropical locations, so they bring the tropics/subtropics to them. There is nothing wrong with that in my mind as I think it's more of a psychological boost to seeing a palm tree than a deciduous tree with bare branches in the winter for example. It can make people happier than they otherwise would be in a dark, rainy and dreary climate. It makes sense why Victorian England started the trend. It was a way probably of helping to combat Seasonal Affective Disorder in winter.
Cool thread, I would like to read through it in more detail when I have time.
I am in zone 7a in extreme northeast Tennessee and I have palm trees, but of course they are not native here, I planted them. I have Needle palms, a Windmill palm, as well as a Sabal Birmingham. All have done well. The Needle palms make it through the winters where with stride, but the Windmill will get some leaf burn if not protected in unusually cold harsh outbreaks. I had a Windmill palm about 3 years ago that had lived here for 7 years, it was pretty big. We had an unusually cold morning when the temp dropped to 8° a couple of winters ago and it killed it! I thought it would be OK since it had been here as long as it had been. I think it had a disease or something. I was upset, but I bought another, it has done OK, but still small. My needle palms are huge. I also know of a location about 20 miles west of here where someone has planted some palms that are pretty large and they have done well.... I think they are cabbage palms, which has surprised me they have lived this far north/inland.
My aunt lives in upstate South Carolina, I see quite a few palms planted in the landscapes... in fact my cousin lives in a subdivision called Palmetto Valley and there are rather large palm trees at the entrance... this is in upstate SC around 700 ft elevation. I mostly see Windmill palms down in that area.
That hardiness zone map is kinda misleading on the west coast... there are high mountains even close to the coast and they have zones 8 and even some 9's there in that mountainous terrain. I dont see that really being the case. Alot of microclimates out there.
In the 2nd pic down in the original post, those look more like sabal minors to me rather than Needle palms? Neat pics!
Last edited by Tennesseestorm; 04-20-2011 at 12:19 AM..
I think they can look out of place , but wouldn't say they give a false impression. Maple trees grow well here , but I don't think anyone thinks we have an Ontario like climate.
I would grow palms where ever I lived (within reason), but fortunately can grow a good range of palms without difficulty. There are enthusiasts in the UK ,PNW,BC and other such places who have to work hard with the basic palms. 3 cheers for them I say.
South Island NZ doesn't belong in the same group as South korea, Northern Japan or coastal Norway etc. Totally different climate. Also, most of the South Island just doesn't do palms, There might be the odd one here or there, but people generally don't bother(even though they can ). They get more common from Christchurch north and are as established as european settlement. There has been recent interest in newer species, but isn't as obsessive as in some places. Our own species isn't as common as introduced ones mainly due to it's lack of frost hardiness. Palms spreading naturally and been regarded as pest plants, gives a good indication of there ultimate suitability for a region.
Most NZ gardeners don't have to try hard with the subtropical look. Our light is bright and our flora is of tropical origin. Even Florida (native flora ) would struggle to match the jungle look of much of our bush. Most of NZ's gardening history actually involves trying to create the temperate look eg- conifers, deciduous trees, Rhododendrons etc, something still deeply ingrained. Some overseas visitors have told me that such temperate plants look out of place here, something that used to upset me.(funny now that I think about it).
That looks like the one I had here in Tennessee that lived about 8 years, then perished when it dropped to 8° during a harsh winter cold snap - that 8° reading was 20° below our coldest average low in January if that tells you anything - it was pretty cold even for us.
I have another though thats doing well.... at least so far.
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) but they always catch my attention. I wouldn't say they look out of place in a city like NYC because not all of the city is urban and corporate, there's actually places where they'd look very appropriate (yet they'd stick out like soar thumbs in Winter). Don't need a whole palm habitat but I wouldn't mind them being a popular choice for an ornamental plant.
