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Old 09-14-2011, 05:22 AM
 
Location: Perth, Western Australia
9,598 posts, read 14,601,621 times
Reputation: 3219
Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehunter007 View Post
In terms of climate types - Gold Coast, Australia is not a “highly maritime climate” (Do)….it is a deep subtropical climate (Cfa) near 28 south. Typically, tropical climates (Af/Ar/Aw) start around 23-25 N/S. So like any climate line…attempting to use stations “right on the line” as an example is a bit misleading. Saying Gold Coast, Australia is “subtropical” is a bit like saying Palm Beach or Ft, Meyers, FL is subtropical – lol: Technically true, but in the actual sense - false.

As to Sydney, Australia….offically Sydney has had freezing temps (1943)...and just this past winter Sydney was "frosty" and several areas in subtropical Australia had near or below freezing temps:


Frosty Sydney - YouTube

I agree the genetics of southern hemisphere subtropical climates...create conditions that make frosts much more rare in subtropical latitudes (from 24 to 34 S)...then in the northern Hemisphere subtropics - but this does not make them "frostless " like the true tropics. If you go back far enough in the record...most locations north of 25 N/S have seen freezing temps. .
How is Gold Coast NOT sub-tropical?

It's no more than 28 degrees from the equator, like Orlando Florida.
Its summer lows average at a balmy 21.something C (70+ F )
Its summers are considered oppressively-humid by people who hate sweating.
Its coldest average monthly lows are still 11-12 C/ 52-54 F.
They grow coconut palms there. I think they even set fruit.
It has a winter dry, summer wet pattern.

I think of Gold Coast being like central Florida,
with a touch more moderation in temperatures
and vaguely lower humidity and sunshine stats.
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Old 09-14-2011, 08:15 AM
 
Location: USA East Coast
4,444 posts, read 4,222,315 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdCanadian View Post
How is Gold Coast NOT sub-tropical?

It's no more than 28 degrees from the equator, like Orlando Florida.
Its summer lows average at a balmy 21.something C (70+ F )
Its summers are considered oppressively-humid by people who hate sweating.
Its coldest average monthly lows are still 11-12 C/ 52-54 F.They grow coconut palms there. I think they even set fruit.It has a winter dry, summer wet pattern.


I think of Gold Coast being like central Florida,
with a touch more moderation in temperatures
and vaguely lower humidity and sunshine stats.

I think you might have missed my point:

All those features you describe are close to what is typical of climates that are “tropical”(Aw/Af) – not subtropical (Cf/Cs).

My point was that using Gold Coast, Australia as a "typical" subtropical climate (cfa) and pointing out it has never had a frost is a bit misleading (as well as saying it’s “highly marine” which Gold Coast, Australia is far from - lol). Technically, GC might not be tropical (maybe all months are not above 18 C/65 F, I haven't checked myself)…but it’s very, very, close to being a tropical climate. A parallel here would be like saying that Palm Beach, Fl is a "typical" subtropical climate and has no frost annually. While technically Palm Beach, Fl is a subtropical climate (one month has a mean temp below 18 C/65 F)….Palm Beach, FL is quite close to the “line” of being a tropical climate. Using climates “on the line” as typical of a climate zone …is a bit unfair was my point

My comment that about 98 - 99% of all subtropical climates (Cs/Cf/Cw) will see a frost at some point was what I was trying to point out. One might find a handful of locations (small narrow islands, highly oceanic areas...etc) that are north of 25 N/S that have escaped a record of a frost, but they represent the 1 or 2 % of subtropical zones.
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Perth, Western Australia
9,598 posts, read 14,601,621 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehunter007 View Post
I think you might have missed my point:

All those features you describe are close to what is typical of climates that are “tropical”(Aw/Af) – not subtropical (Cf/Cs).

My point was that using Gold Coast, Australia as a "typical" subtropical climate (cfa) and pointing out it has never had a frost is a bit misleading (as well as saying it’s “highly marine” which Gold Coast, Australia is far from - lol). Technically, GC might not be tropical (maybe all months are not above 18 C/65 F, I haven't checked myself)…but it’s very, very, close to being a tropical climate. A parallel here would be like saying that Palm Beach, Fl is a "typical" subtropical climate and has no frost annually. While technically Palm Beach, Fl is a subtropical climate (one month has a mean temp below 18 C/65 F)….Palm Beach, FL is quite close to the “line” of being a tropical climate. Using climates “on the line” as typical of a climate zone …is a bit unfair was my point

My comment that about 98 - 99% of all subtropical climates (Cs/Cf/Cw) will see a frost at some point was what I was trying to point out. One might find a handful of locations (small narrow islands, highly oceanic areas...etc) that are north of 25 N/S that have escaped a record of a frost, but they represent the 1 or 2 % of subtropical zones.
Ah. I thought you meant GC wasn't warm enough for sub-tropical.

As a tropical climate, GC is pretty lousy,
though it isn't far behind Mackay QLD which is in the tropics
yet is even advertised as a sub-tropical climate.

The only thing they miss compared with the US SE sub-tropical climates are SST's that exceed 28 C/82 F every year,
and with that, they have a diminished risk of being struck by cyclones (hurricanes)

Would you consider Ipswich, QLD (30-50 km west of Brisbane?) a more typical sub-tropical climate?


Palm Beach?
I would say that South Florida IS like a tropical climate, with a few continental spells of nastiness.
Semi-tropical is probably the best fit. It's more like the Caribbean than it is like southern Alabama.

Central Florida and northward is where I consider a classic sub-tropical climate.
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Old 09-14-2011, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Cloudchurch, Subantarctica
2,595 posts, read 1,664,353 times
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My point about "strong maritime influence" was that climates that are very close to the coast have a greatly reduced chance of frost due to the moderating effect of the ocean.
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Old 09-15-2011, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Perth, Western Australia
9,598 posts, read 14,601,621 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChesterNZ View Post
My point about "strong maritime influence" was that climates that are very close to the coast have a greatly reduced chance of frost due to the moderating effect of the ocean.
I understood. Bahamas would be also very-maritime influenced. All they are are a serious of sandbars in the South Atlantic/Caribbean.

I think wavehunter was confusing it with "maritime" climate zones,
which most scientists only include summerless climates with very mild winters.
Places like San Francisco and Hobart.

I consider the Sunshine Coast of QLD to be very maritime influenced.
It gets less sun, more rain and cooler record max highs than even Gold Coast.
The name "Sunshine Coast" is very ironic imho,
as the sunshine maps show it's the cloudiest part of Queensland, south of the north Queensland rainforest areas.
*Maybe it was named that by a tourist from Melbourne?
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Old 09-16-2011, 10:14 PM
 
Location: PA
17,771 posts, read 7,627,277 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdCanadian View Post
Ah. I thought you meant GC wasn't warm enough for sub-tropical.

As a tropical climate, GC is pretty lousy,
though it isn't far behind Mackay QLD which is in the tropics
yet is even advertised as a sub-tropical climate.

The only thing they miss compared with the US SE sub-tropical climates are SST's that exceed 28 C/82 F every year,
and with that, they have a diminished risk of being struck by cyclones (hurricanes)

Would you consider Ipswich, QLD (30-50 km west of Brisbane?) a more typical sub-tropical climate?


Palm Beach?
I would say that South Florida IS like a tropical climate, with a few continental spells of nastiness.
Semi-tropical is probably the best fit. It's more like the Caribbean than it is like southern Alabama.


Central Florida and northward is where I consider a classic sub-tropical climate.
I agree. Plus, Florida's warmness is also contributed by the fact that warm Caribbean waters and warm, moist tropical air enter Florida's vicinity, helping it contribute to its warm climate. The air, though, flows upwards to the northwest, then diverts to the southeast, missing the rest of the southern states some of the time. Which is why sometimes 9/10 of the U.S. is painted blue on a temperature map, while Florida is yellow or light orange (15-26°C).
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Old 09-18-2011, 05:01 AM
 
Location: Perth, Western Australia
9,598 posts, read 14,601,621 times
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If Australia's winter wind patterns are usually from the NW or SW,
that would explain why it never gets exceptionally warm in a Bunbury winter,
nor exceptionally cold.
Anything westerly in Bunbury comes from the Indian Ocean.

Is it possible for north-easterly winds to blow in Australian winter?
Is that only a summer phenomenon?
Or summer, except for coastal Queensland?
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Old 12-31-2013, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Sydney, Australia
1,633 posts, read 366,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdCanadian View Post
If Australia's winter wind patterns are usually from the NW or SW,
Is it possible for north-easterly winds to blow in Australian winter?
Is that only a summer phenomenon?
Or summer, except for coastal Queensland?
Yes. Our climate is very variable.
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