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Old 09-24-2011, 12:15 PM
 
Location: CT - close to coast
24,652 posts, read 13,095,038 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Are you say we're breaking 100-500 year records on cold temperatures? .
No... meaning, Extremes are occuring and record colds as well as record warmth is also. When using a gardeners standpoint of view, you cannot and should not use 30 years to judge what will survive.

Im not saying something will die next year but when we plant, we plant for 10,15,50,100yrs for the future. Its like saying Palms can be planted in coastal Virginia because they are Zone 8 now.

Again...my point is, we need to use 100 years or ALL years we have on record to see the zone averages. Coastal CT can be planting with Zone 7 plants today but in 10 years we could be in zone 6 or even 5.

Brings up an interesting statistic... do we know how the zone map would look if we used 100 years instead of 30?

Lastly...Might be just me but my friggin vegetable growing season seems to be getting shorter and shorter each year in CT.
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Old 09-24-2011, 04:06 PM
 
Location: USA East Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
.

In any case, I agree with your main point. From the map, we've moved to zone 6, but last winter we had one morning temperature that was almost -20F, pushing into zone 4 territory! But a -20F temperature is not record breaking just not all that common, something that might happen every 10-20 years.
You took the words right out of my mouth – that’s what people forget when they look a garden zone map – the zone and temp represent what the average low will be - not what the 10 or 20 year event will be.

Garden zone maps show little of the whole weather picture. What about heat, sunlight, rainfall, changing pressure patters…etc?. The full spectrum of weather conditions are truly what is important to growing plants .

Many years back I was shocked to learn that coconut palms that are growing all over the place in southern Florida…would never survive in even the mildest protected garden in San Diego. I was certain this was wrong. I've been to San Diego in winter, the weather is warm, sunny and frost free – so how could this be true? Yet, research has shown that coconut palms need constant heat (even in winter), moisture, and humidity to grow well. In fact, a single night when the low deeps into the upper 30’s for a few hours (which happens in BOTH Miami and San Diego every few years) is LESS troublesome to a coconut palm than several weeks of temps that fail to get above 55 F (which happens often in San Diego in winter – but NEVER happens in Miami in winter).

A garden zone map is truly only a very rough guide to growing.
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Old 09-24-2011, 05:35 PM
 
2,491 posts, read 2,005,053 times
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I thought Mr. Gore said we were experiencing "global warming"? We were supposed to be seeing massive temperature increases, record high sea levels, Armageddon, and chaos. LOL
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Old 09-24-2011, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Western Massachusetts
27,186 posts, read 13,527,491 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90sman View Post
I thought Mr. Gore said we were experiencing "global warming"? We were supposed to be seeing massive temperature increases, record high sea levels, Armageddon, and chaos. LOL
I don't know what Al Gore said, but I suspect he gets his numbers from the IPCC report. The IPCC report predicted a warming of 0.19C per decade (0.34F per decade).

home page Stefan Rahmstorf

I, too, was surprised, how small the change was, but looking at the figures for predicted warming, it makes sense. And global warming is supposed to create a larger temperature change in more northernly places and change minimums, particularly winter ones more maximum temps and summer temps. And that is exactly what we see here. I'm not saying that the new 1981-2010 prove global warming, but the changes we observe do not clash with expected trends from global warming.
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Old 09-25-2011, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
5,797 posts, read 2,789,611 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
the 2nd page of the link I posted shows how hardiness zones changed. They base the hardiness zone off 30 year averages.
Interesting. Didn't look at the second page prior. The changes are subtle, but are there.
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