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Old 04-13-2012, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Western Massachusetts
26,998 posts, read 13,367,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehunter007 View Post
Good to see you moved this to its own thread, as it is quite a interesting topic.
Agreed. And it turned separated from the thread it started and I thought it'd be best if you didn't confuse it.

Quote:
Perhaps we are both talking about (or trying to compare) different areas:

In your 10:35 am post (above) you said “The Pacific Northwest feels more like coastal California”. By this statement - I thought you were trying to say that stations like Seattle, Port Angeles...etc and stations like say Long Beach, San Diego...etc
Yeh, when I meant coastal California I was thinking more Bay Area, though I wasn't excluding further south. The difference between the Pacific Northwest and the Bay Area is a bit blurrier and a more interesting comparison than Southern California. Plus, my mental image of coastal California is a place further north than Southern California.

I'm talking specifically about Mediterranean climates. San Diego falls within the semi-arid zone, though it's near the border. Long Beach is borderline between Mediterranean and semi-arid, not really the best example. Santa Barbara is definitely Mediterranean. Semi-arid, of course, is not the same, as desert.

Quote:
As far as the picture you posted above… I agreed, the picture looks moderately typical of Mediterranean-type vegetation. However, to be fair to all perspectives - I think the look of what one would consider “Mediterranean vegetation or Mediterranean looking landscapes “ might be seen through different lenses based on where one has been in the Mediterranean climate sector. The picture you posted is in the far northern boundary of Mediterranean California (the hills on the SF peninsula). Cs climates terminate just above San Francisco. When I picture Mediterranean climates (Los Angeles, Greece, southern Spain, southern Italy, Israel...etc), in both vegetation and esp architecture, I see it a bit different.
My photos might be a little different from typical Mediterranean, not because of geographic location but because of altitude making it a bit wetter and cooler. San Francisco is not the far northern boundary of Mediterranean California. It extends several hundred miles further north, possibly a bit into Oregon. Trewatha includes all of California in the same zone in his book The Earth's Problem Climates. I'd say the Bay Area is less of a borderline Mediterranean climate than Southern California, though most of Southern California still counts as Mediterranean, so it deserves mention. The Bay Area (except for maybe within a mile of the Pacific) has high sunshine hours unlike the Pacific NW. The very northern parts of California are rather mountainous right by the coast, making classification difficult. Makes the area very interesting with lots of variation; one of the reason I like California over Florida (if Florida had mountains I'd be more interested in it!). Ukiah is definitely Mediterranean; so is Redding. These are more borderline: Richardson Redwood State Park ( http://www.wrcc.dri.edu/cgi-bin/cliMAIN.pl?ca7404 - broken link) (there are better Redwood parks) Grant's Pass, Oregon. (Advertising Slogan: It's the climate!) These all are wetter than further south but the summer dry season is intense to create a distinct open forest Mediterranean type. The wet Mediterranean (precipitation > 35" or so) are the hardest ones to classify.


Quote:
When I rememeber Pacific Santa Barbara, CA in winter I picture and remember this:
Nice picture, and obviously not desert. I'd prefer an image of something with more native vegetation. Here's two of drier Californian Mediterranean climates:

Mulholland Hwy, Malibu, Los Angeles, California 90265 - Google Maps

Shrubby chapparal. Or especially this mountain one:

Yucca Point Trail, Kings Canyon, CA - Scenic Hikes on Waymarking.com

(looks greener because it's in April)


Quote:
When I remember Seattle or Pacific Washington in winter I picture and remember this.
I spent last summer in the Pacific Northwest; most of it outdoors. Compared to summer back home or in the UK, rain was at most minor nuisance rather than large worry. It felt remarkably dry to me. That's partly why I kept focusing on summer weather patterns. But yes, I agree in general the Pacific Northwest belong better with the oceanic climates than California; except in summer.

Though someone from much of Northwest Europe might focus on the differences and think "look at how sunny the Pacific Northwest is".
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Northeast US
100 posts, read 37,883 times
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Borderline Csb climates in the Pacific Northwest:

- Parts of southern and southeastern Vancouver Island in B.C.
- Portions of the Gulf Islands in B.C. and San Juan Islands in WA
- Port Angeles, Port Townsend, Sequim and environs in WA
- Maybe some areas in Puget Sound (in WA)
- Maybe parts of the Columbia River valley in Oregon/WA
- Parts of the Wilamette Valley in OR
- The Umpqua River valley in southern OR (no question about this one)

What all of these areas have in common is that they are sheltered from the Pacific Ocean and under the influence of orographic effects (specifically rain shadows). All have warmer summers than the open coast but have cooler winters than would normally be associated with Csb climates (hence the "borderline" proviso). Some areas at the northern boundary (BC/WA) also have a slightly less reliable summer drought than further south -- some years (like this one, for example) can see rainy weather in June, unheard of further south. Nevertheless, the overall climate regime is clearly different from the rest of the maritime west coast. This can be seen especially in the vegetation on dry, south-facing slopes in the specific areas I mentioned. Species include manzanita, madrone, ceanothus, prickly pear cactus, many California herbs, forbs and grasses, etc. They all love (actually, require) summer drought and relatively mild, rainy winters - two very key characteristics of Csb climates.
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Northeast US
100 posts, read 37,883 times
Reputation: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehunter007 View Post
Good to see you moved this to its own thread, as it is quite a interesting topic.

Perhaps we are both talking about (or trying to compare) different areas:

In your 10:35 am post (above) you said “The Pacific Northwest feels more like coastal California”. By this statement - I thought you were trying to say that stations like Seattle, Port Angeles...etc and stations like say Long Beach, San Diego...etc had a similar climate (and the “feel” of these climates were similar). I as mentioned above (and the climate data shows well I think), there is a rather large degree of difference between coastal/or near-coastal Pacific stations up in the PNW (cool summers/frequent changing weather conditions much of the year/frequent cloudy skies/many rain days/lack of high pressure...etc ...and coastal/or near coastal stations along the California coast (warm to hot summers/stable weather conditions much of the year/few rain days/chronic high pressure/desert like summers...etc. The climate genetics are dissimilar much more often than they are similar. Trewarta rightfully separated them into two different climate groups.

As far as the picture you posted above… I agreed, the picture looks moderately typical of Mediterranean-type vegetation. However, to be fair to all perspectives - I think the look of what one would consider “Mediterranean vegetation or Mediterranean looking landscapes “ might be seen through different lenses based on where one has been in the Mediterranean climate sector. The picture you posted is in the far northern boundary of Mediterranean California (the hills on the SF peninsula). Cs climates terminate just above San Francisco. When I picture Mediterranean climates (Los Angeles, Greece, southern Spain, southern Italy, Israel...etc), in both vegetation and esp architecture, I see it a bit different.


When I rememeber Pacific Santa Barbara, CA in winter I picture and remember this:




When I remember Seattle or Pacific Washington in winter I picture and remember this.





To be fair however - this is likely because the Mediterranean climate I have been in the most (southern California, southern Italy) are low latitude, intense versions of Mediterranean style climates (Warm to hot, mild winters, very sunny, very dry, very stable...etc). Still, I don’t consider the above pic of CA to be desert vegetation.
There are problems with both of the pictures you posted. The picture of Santa Barbara displays no native vegetation whatsoever. It's just an artificial landscape. The picture of Seattle is not from Seattle (I can tell, because the forest around the Puget Lowlands doesn't look like that.) Remember, there are many microclimates in the PNW that depend on orographic effects (the effects of mountains). Rainfall on one side of a mountain range can be 150" while the other side gets 14" or less.

Further, I don't think anyone would compare Seattle with Santa Barbara. A more apt comparison might be parts of the Bay Area (inland, northern parts - e.g. parts of Marin County). There are still differences though, because Seattle doesn't get fog in the summer. Nowhere in the PNW is exactly like anywhere in California, even if parts of the PNW do (barely) qualify as Csb. There will be differences within that category, of course, and the PNW-Csb areas are right on the borderline.
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Old 11-06-2012, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, BC
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San Francisco has a high of 22ºc in their hottest month and here in Victoria, BC we only received 2.8 mm of rain in September and August.
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Old 04-07-2013, 04:11 PM
 
3 posts, read 2,276 times
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Default Sequim, WA (Sunny coastal city) same Rainfall as LA

Yes, this a little-known Sunny coastal city is becoming increasingly popular amongst Californians.
Read [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequim,_WA"]Sequim, Washington - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]

It's near Bellingham, Port Angeles, Olympic Rain Forest, & Forks of Twilight Movie Fame, Plus it's near Vancouver, Canada. Plenty of tourist spots & things to do. However visit w/o having any expectations as you may be pleasantly surprised.

It's not San Diego, but it's a little-known undiscovered treasure. Make sure you visit all these places especially the Huge Animal Farm of Wildlife in Sequim. I highly recommend you at least visit this unusual place even if you decide this area is not for you.

"Sequim lies within the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainshadow"]rainshadow[/URL] of the Olympic Mountains and receives on average less than 16 inches (410 mm) of rain per year—about the same as Los Angeles, California—and has given itself the nickname of Sunny Sequim. Yet the city is fairly close to some of the wettest [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperate_rainforest"]temperate rainforests[/URL] of the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contiguous_United_States"]contiguous United States[/URL]. This climate anomaly is sometimes called the blue hole of Sequim."
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Old 04-07-2013, 09:14 PM
 
Location: HERE
2,062 posts, read 917,470 times
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IMO, the northern and central immediate California and Oregon coastline is a gradual transition from Mediterranean to Maritime while inland northern California as well as the Willamette Valley are more Mediterranean due to fog/sun patterns.

If you go inland into the valleys, the transitional zone is more like the Seattle area. Even though San Francisco gets little rain in summer, their fog keeps them moist and cool all summer which is why it's borderline maritime. San Jose, only 40 miles, inland gets dry, warm, sunny summers with highs over 80 degrees almost every day with rain being very rare, is solidly Mediterranean. Portland, OR gets more rain in summer than coastal California but still gets the bulk of its precip in winter AND it has sunny summers so it's more Mediterranean. Seattle, on the other hand, is far moister year round, so it's solidly maritime.
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Old 04-07-2013, 09:58 PM
 
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If you consider chilly, wet and windy 9 months out of the year "Mediterranean". Not every day in Spring, but many (like today, 50 degrees, pouring and windy). Oh, and gray.

Only has Med climate in the techinical sense cited above: dry summers, wet winters. But wet starts in early October and runs through May, or even June. I have lived in several Mediterranean countries, CA, OR, and WA. This is nothing like the Med parts of Spain or France--much more like Galicia or Bordeaux, i.e., right on the Atlantic, cold and wet. Really, much like that.
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Old 04-07-2013, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Bellingham, WA
215 posts, read 79,798 times
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Portland and Seattle actually have very, very similar climates. Portland does have summers 3-5 degrees fahrenheit warmer, and perhaps a bit sunnier, but overall they're basically the same, especially during the wet season. I think the differences show up most often during summer heatwaves; Portland records something like three times as many 90+ degree days as Seattle does, and 5+ day stretches of these hot days are definitely possible every year in Portland, while that's only happened once since 1945 in Seattle.

From living in Seattle, I'd say it's just not mediterranean at all. The winters stretch out too long; it's mainly cloudy and often wet from October until April, which doesn't fit with my idea of what a mediterranean climate is like. Summer is dry and warm for the most part, but that's only two-three months of the year usually--not really enough to make the climate as a whole feel mediterranean.

Another thing is that, to my eyes, storms in true Mediterranean winters seem to often move through relatively quickly. For example, in a wet Los Angeles storm, it will rain hard for a day or two, but then the sun will return. Here, it's just usually cloudy in the winter, regardless of whether or not it's raining.
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Old 04-07-2013, 10:36 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
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I'd say Roseburg, Oregon is the farthest north location on the 5 with a true Mediterranean climate. Areas farther north have more in common with oceanic climates.
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Top of the South (Nelson), NZ
6,940 posts, read 3,255,564 times
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A climate classification describes a climate over a whole year. Therefore the PNW belongs in the Mediterranean group. Saying it's an Oceanic with a different summer doesn't work. I find my own climate doesn't much match NW Europe for day to day weather, but they're both still Oceanic as the month to month patterns are similar. Not so with the PNW, it's summer is a very different pattern.
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