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Old 04-10-2012, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Laurentia
5,100 posts, read 2,795,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChesterNZ View Post
You wouldn't consider Seattle or Portland oceanic?
No, they're Mediterranean. Csb is the Warm Summer Mediterranean type that encompasses those two cities; of course it's certainly cooler than something like Jerusalem, but they're Mediterranean just the same. Putting aside for a moment any stupefying arguments about Mediterranean climates based on stereotypes, how can a place have an oceanic climate when the very definition specifies that they cannot have a true dry season?

Quote:
Oh, but you were quite happy to hijack this thread with suggestions of subpolar climates like Reykjavik and Unalaska.
Subpolar oceanic climates. The consensus is that they are a variety of oceanic climate, with oceanic climates encompassing Koeppen types Cfb and Cfc. Cfa, Csa, Csb, etc. are not oceanic climates, and in any case Cfc climates are closer related to the Cfb types than many of the hotter options presented. The subpolar types I'm speaking of are actual oceanic climates that meet group C criteria and don't have a dry season, unlike the analogous action to what I've accused others of doing, which would be to pass off a Dfc climate that was marine-influenced as "oceanic".
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:40 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChesterNZ View Post
You wouldn't consider Seattle or Portland oceanic?
I wouldn't classify them as oceanic, as much as I'd like the summers to be wetter here.

Vancouver is also Csb, depending on which weather station is used.
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Melbourne AUS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricius Maximus View Post
No, they're Mediterranean. Csb is the Warm Summer Mediterranean type that encompasses those two cities; of course it's certainly cooler than something like Jerusalem, but they're Mediterranean just the same. Putting aside for a moment any stupefying arguments about Mediterranean climates based on stereotypes, how can a place have an oceanic climate when the very definition specifies that they cannot have a true dry season?
The only thing "Mediterranean" about Seattle and Portland is the rainfall pattern.
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:50 PM
 
Location: Laurentia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flight Simmer View Post
The only thing "Mediterranean" about Seattle and Portland is the rainfall pattern.
That's the whole point .
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Old 04-10-2012, 10:49 PM
 
933 posts, read 906,653 times
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I think temperatures are more important for climate classification purpose than precipitation patterns. It's absurd to not acknowledge that Vancouver and Seattle are oceanic, considering their geographic locations and the moderating maritime effects on each climates. I also think it's silly for the Mediterranean climate group to be extended to regions outside of Europe.
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:08 PM
 
Location: New York City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flight Simmer View Post
The only thing "Mediterranean" about Seattle and Portland is the rainfall pattern.
The problem is that even in Southern California many coastal locations have rather cool summers, and thus are technically oceanic. But most people regard them as Mediterranean.
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:08 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, BC
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Anywhere on the West coast of North America north of the Oregon/California border is not Mediterranean IMO because to me Mediterranean is a subset of "subtropical" climate and for a climate to be "subtropical" it has to have at least 8 months that average 10C (50F) or higher. If you look at the Trewartha climate classification, you will see that the line delineating Cs and Do is right around the OR/CA border.
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:21 PM
 
Location: New York City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deneb78 View Post
Anywhere on the West coast of North America north of the Oregon/California border is not Mediterranean IMO because to me Mediterranean is a subset of "subtropical" climate and for a climate to be "subtropical" it has to have at least 8 months that average 10C (50F) or higher. If you look at the Trewartha climate classification, you will see that the line delineating Cs and Do is right around the OR/CA border.
I like this distinction. Makes things consistent.
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Old 04-11-2012, 05:51 AM
 
Location: Laurentia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMarbles View Post
The problem is that even in Southern California many coastal locations have rather cool summers, and thus are technically oceanic. But most people regard them as Mediterranean.
Further ammunition to my case. To regard a temperate climate (group C, and summer letter b) with a true dry season as oceanic is stupid. Whether you decide to label it "Mediterranean" is something else, but a dry-summer temperate classification is obviously warranted. The very definition of this climate, and the definition of Mediterranean climate, is a climate with temperate or subtropical temperatures that has a true dry season in the summer months. I don't know why it is so hard for so many people to accept that these West Coast climates do have a summer dry season and thus do have a Mediterranean climate. It is merely baseless emotionalism, to say "oh, that climate can't be Mediterranean, it doesn't fit my stereotype", and it is equally baseless to say that about subtropical, continental, subarctic, or any other kind of climate. It would be like me saying that any location that can get above 40F in the winter isn't a real continental climate, and try to shoehorn "subtropical climate" to fit the tossed-aside portions of the continental zone when they are obviously not subtropical. It's the same thing as tossing out a good chunk of the Mediterranean zones and trying to shoehorn oceanic climate to fit them when obviously they are not oceanic.

Kaul's position notwithstanding of course. He's using the oceanic/maritime label to apply to any place with a maritime influence, i.e. tighter annual range, lower daily range, less variability. This is regardless of temperature or temperateness, which is a completely different animal than the conventional Cfb/Cfc types being under that umbrella. In that respect Seattle and Portland are maritime, but so is Ust'Kamchatsk, Russia, Nome, Alaska, Nain, Labrador, and Boston, Massachusetts. As far as this climate classification goes Kaul's position is irrelevant.
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Melbourne AUS
1,156 posts, read 729,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMarbles View Post
The problem is that even in Southern California many coastal locations have rather cool summers, and thus are technically oceanic. But most people regard them as Mediterranean.
Yes, but a 10 minute drive inland and you've got yourself average summer temps in the 90's and over 3000 hours annual sunshine. And a crap load of palm trees aswell. That to me spells "Mediterranean" more than any cold and gloomy climate with short lukewarm summers ever will just because some of those climates have summer min and winter max rainfall pattern.

In any case, even the extreme coastal spots in Southern California make a meal of anywhere in the Pacific Northwest, particularly in winter. I'd regard palm trees, 19C winters and sunshine as more evocative of the Mediterranean than 5C drizzly wet gloomy muck.
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