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For me the climate classification 'humid subtropical' is very misleading subtropical climates are normally transitions between the tropical climates to the South and the continental climates to the north. I wouldn't change the climate classification but just the name. So NYC, Akita, Virginia beach, Tokyo etc would have 'Humid' transitional climate (cool winter subtype) with all featuring very warm or Hot summers. warm winter subtype would be the true subtropical climates (in my opinion) places like Houston, New orleans, Sydney, Buenos Aires etc...
What is transitional about Brisbane? It's winters hardly represent a final step before polar winters.
Your own climate does a better job of bridging the divide, with London summers only 3-4C short of the 22C summer mark but with London winters 11C colder than Brisbane's. I think I would say London shows more transition . London gets far closer to a tropical summer than Brisbane gets to a polar winter - therefore London is more transitional.
What is transitional about Brisbane? It's winters hardly represent a final step before polar winters.
Indeed. For some weird reason these discussions end up revolving around a small cluster of climates very close to the tropical zone - the "near-tropical" climates, rather than the entire zone in question. We've been having this discussion for years now, and we still have the same problems we had 3 years ago. It brings to mind an old post by Wavehunter from the original thread commenting on the quandary that is the subtropical zone. It makes me glad that my preferred zones (Dfb, Dsc, and their cousins) don't have incessant debates and questions over their nature .
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Well, you are not the only one who thinks that…I too have always thought that might not be a bad idea as well. Any location that has no months with means temperatures below 10 C (50 F) would be subtropical in its purest form.
However, the problem would be that many cities with a long hot season, semi-tropical flora/fauna, and a huge number of growing degree days, would not fall into this zone of 50 F (10 C) for the coldest month. In Europe/Asia, this would put cities like Naples (Italy), Osaka (Japan), and Shanghai (China) not in the subtropics. In the USA, cities like Sacramento, CA, Dallas, TX, or Wilmington, NC would not fall into the subtropics. So it is truly a quagmire - and one that I think is very interesting. I've thought for many years about an answer - but whenever one group of climates that seems not to belong is excluded…other climates that seem to surely belong are also excluded.
If you’re interested out of curiosity…here is a map of the coldest month - January (Feb/Dec are warmer). Find the 50 F (10 C) line. Note…that only cities in coastal southern California, a tiny area around the California/ southern Arizona deserts…and the coastal plain of the Gulf and south Atlantic states from San Antonio, TX to Charleston, SC …have mean January temps higher than 50 F. In other worlds, only the zone in the red would be considered subtropical in the United States if 50 F (10 C) for the coldest month was the criteria:
Indeed. For some weird reason these discussions end up revolving around a small cluster of climates very close to the tropical zone - the "near-tropical" climates, rather than the entire zone in question. We've been having this discussion for years now, and we still have the same problems we had 3 years ago. It brings to mind an old post by Wavehunter from the original thread commenting on the quandary that is the subtropical zone. It makes me glad that my preferred zones (Dfb, Dsc, and their cousins) don't have incessant debates and questions over their nature .
Yes I agree.
Places in the lower end of the zone are much more debatable. From my subjective view, the "most" subtropical would be the climate most evocative of year round warmth. I would say that here is warmer over the year than somewhere like NYC. The far greater heat of a New York summer doesn't compensate for the colder winter and adjoining months.
What is transitional about Brisbane? It's winters hardly represent a final step before polar winters.
Your own climate does a better job of bridging the divide, with London summers only 3-4C short of the 22C summer mark but with London winters 11C colder than Brisbane's. I think I would say London shows more transition . London gets far closer to a tropical summer than Brisbane gets to a polar winter - therefore London is more transitional.
London isn't more transitional its too cool year round. Subtropical or transitional climate have a cool season and hot season. Brisbane is Transitional from Tropical to the North and warm temperate to the south.
London isn't more transitional its too cool year round. Subtropical or transitional climate have a cool season and hot season. Brisbane is Transitional from Tropical to the North and warm temperate to the south.
So somewhere like NYC is more subtropical than Naples (the Italian one) as it is hotter in summer and cooler in winter?
^Naples is mediterranean isn't it? London is WAY to cool to be subtropical/transitional Nyc's transition is on the northern edge of the climate boundary.
Now I see where your getting at. I'd say Sydney is equally as transitional because of the warm temperature year round but not warm enough (and actually having a temperate 4 season ish routine) so it as a bit of both. For NYC the transition is practically over unlike sydney or New Orleans it as a proper 4 season climate with a distinct VERY cool season (winter)
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