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I think that's the point of climate classification - to identify basic climate types.
Cfa is of interest to me, because it includes the term subtropical. To me, "subtropicalness" is best defined by which natural environments (flora, fauna ) reflect the changes between tropical and temperate zones.
By concentrating on summer temperatures alone, somewhere like NYC can be elavated in such a way, that it doesn't truly represent a progression of climates, from warmer to cooler.
There are thresholds for both summer and winter though, and places like NYC and DC make the grade. You'll see both northern and southern vegetation in both cities. Both of them are pretty mild overall, very much in between tropical climates and true continental climates.
well, i think it would be a better idea to start using continentality just as a meassure of annual temperature amplitude, instead of reserving it only for the cold climate types, like Dfb. the categories could be ultra-maritime (10C< yearly amplitude), maritime (10-15C yearly amplitude), submaritime (15-20C amplitude), subcontinental (20-25C amplitude), continental (25-30C amplitude), ultra-continental (30C+) and then dennote each of this contintality types with some kind of letter. then you could use the annual average temperature as a measure of whether the place is subarctic (0C<), cold temperate (0-6C), warm temperate (6-12C), subtropical (12-18C) and tropical (18C+) and dennote each of these by a couple of letters
So, according to this system, new york would be subtropical continental, while say, Rome, would bee labeled subtropical submaritime.
this would probably be a bad match to the genetic climate zones, biomes and so on, but at least it would solve this ever ongoing subtropical definition debate.
Last edited by kronan123; 08-06-2013 at 05:24 PM..
Sorry but this doesn't solve it, as there will be some amplitude / different averages. Anyways, I think P London's idea is great, although I'd change it a bit - I'd change it to 'borderline tropical', 'subtropical' and 'borderline temperate'. (HK = borderline subtropical, Jackson = subtropical, NYC = borderline temperate) That should help confusions.
well, i think it would be a better idea to start using continentality just as a meassure of annual temperature amplitude, instead of reserving it only for the cold climate types, like Dfb. the categories could be ultra-maritime (10C< yearly amplitude), maritime (10-15C yearly amplitude), submaritime (15-20C amplitude), subcontinental (20-25C amplitude), continental (25-30C amplitude), ultra-continental (30C+) and then dennote each of this contintality types with some kind of letter. then you could use the annual average temperature as a measure of whether the place is subarctic (0C<), cold temperate (0-6C), warm temperate (6-12C), subtropical (12-18C) and tropical (18C+) and dennote each of these by a couple of letters
So, according to this system, new york would be subtropical continental, while say, Rome, would bee labeled subtropical submaritime.
this would probably be a bad match to the genetic climate zones, biomes and so on, but at least it would solve this ever ongoing subtropical definition debate.
I agree with the continentality index but I would change the temp thresholds
Annual temp
<5C subarctic
5-10C cold temperate
11-15C warm temperate
>16C subtropical
I agree that the seasonal range should be used to define whether a climate is continental or not, however it should be adjusted depending on latitude, so places like Alice Springs will be considered continental with a seasonal variation of 17C.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deneb78
I agree with the continentality index but I would change the temp thresholds
Annual temp
<5C subarctic
5-10C cold temperate
11-15C warm temperate
>16C subtropical
If it were up to me I would have 15C as the boundary between cold and warm temperate, after all, 15C is about the world's mean temperature. 6C as warm temperate is just crazy, that would mean somewhere like Montreal is warm temperate!
This is the most amazing thread! I live in Florida. I've always considered Florida to be sub tropical (and like most old native floridians, don't consider the panhandle part of Florida, although I know the capital is up there somewhere).
We consider 50 to be really cold, cold enough to warrant a fire, but don't consider 85 hot. Where does Florida fall into this?
(Again, brilliant thread, love to see people's minds at work and working together!)
Since I'm having to go back and forth to the celsius/fahrenheit converter, I'm getting lost.
This is the most amazing thread! I live in Florida. I've always considered Florida to be sub tropical (and like most old native floridians, don't consider the panhandle part of Florida, although I know the capital is up there somewhere).
We consider 50 to be really cold, cold enough to warrant a fire, but don't consider 85 hot. Where does Florida fall into this?
(Again, brilliant thread, love to see people's minds at work and working together!)
Since I'm having to go back and forth to the celsius/fahrenheit converter, I'm getting lost.
Florida is on the transition of the Humid subtropical to tropical climates.
Sydney isn't exactly humid subtropical nor oceanic. I think 'warm temperate' would be a better tag for it.
Sydney's nothing like Hong Kong, Brisbane, Orlando in terms of humidity. Maybe it's subtropical, but not exactly humid (I mean, you gotta be very humid to get that title behind you).
NYC making it into the humid subtropical classification is largely due to the urban heat island effect. In the metro area only NYC proper makes it, and maybe immediate coastal areas of the south shore of LI and Jersey shore..and that's a stretch. Only the 5 boros for sure meet the definition. The coldest month (Jan) avg temp is above freezing. In NYC the urbanization that keeps overnight low temps milder than surrounding areas is the boost to get it into humid sup tropical. Places just outside city limits like Newark, White Plains would not.
I noticed that you seem to be using high temps, in that respect the amount necessary for subtropical should be dropped to about 10*C. That way places like Atlanta would make it. My city has avg jan highs between 10 and 14 C, and it only snows about once a year, and people will wear short sleeves in the winter.
(based on some data I looked up, the border would be somewhere in NC for the east coast)
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