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Though ground surface temps at 4,000' don't necessarily equal the 850 hPa airmass ones,
Hmmm, while that makes sense to me, I have to look into that more. Everytime I look at Mount Washington it closely matches the 850mb temps. (not exact because they are a bit higher but a good measure of finding out how temps are at that level)
Current 850mb temps are 10.8C in that area. Mt Washington temp is 45°F(7.5C). When I hear someone say temps got to 20 below zero, the 850mb temps need to be colder than 15C at least and thats hard to get (but doable) in NC..
When they release the weather balloons twice a day from areas that are higher elevation, the data starts at 900mb or whatever the surface is.. So the balloon will read what those temps are at 850.
For instance. Denver, CO released their balloon 2 hours ago. 850mb came back at 71.6F(22C) Temps at Denver are 69(21.5C). Match.
Little Rock Arkansas released their balloon. They are at 250' elevation but the 850mb data came back at 22C. Same as Denver. Point being, no matter if its air or surface, the 850mb temp data are similar to those at the surface.
But back to NC.. As nei pointed out.. a 3500' location is similar, but less snowier, than a place in northern CT. So high elevation at Latitude 36.20°N is the same as a low elevation at 42°N.
Though ground surface temps at 4,000' don't necessarily equal the 850 hPa airmass ones, due to ground heating and, sometimes on winter nights, radiational cooling. Record highs, but also record lows are more extreme at ground level. It certainly doesn't require a -28°C airmass to produce such cold air.
Yes, it's quite special as it's a sinkhole and gets quite extreme cold air pooling, but any flat valley will feature intense radiational cooling if there's snow on the ground on still, clear nights.
Quite true in mountian valleys, anywhere .Here in Marquette, on The largest body of fresh water in the world we are so tempered by the lake that downtown on the waterfront it can be say 15f. Go 10 miles inland, same night and it can be 10f below 0.A lot has to do with the direction your weather comes from also., example cloud cover can cause lower temps. We here in Marquette have fewer cloudy days than say Grand Rapids, Mi which is 400 miles south, maybe less by crow. The lake effect brings huge amounts of snow, we hold many records , yet we have more sunshine. Many people find what I say is hard to understand.
Hmmm, while that makes sense to me, I have to look into that more. Everytime I look at Mount Washington it closely matches the 850mb temps. (not exact because they are a bit higher but a good measure of finding out how temps are at that level)
That's because you're on a mountain peak. If the 4000 ft spot (similar to Rozenn's Alps examples) were at the bottom of a valley it could potentially get colder than the 850 mb due to cold air from higher up descending down the hillsides to the bottom of the valley.
Both altitude and latitude have their effects. But you are ignoring a huge factor: Inland vs. Coast. The ocean has a tremendous moderating effect on climate, which is why Minneapolis has extreme weather even though it's the same latitude as Venice, Italy. (And Minneapolis is not at a particularly high altitude - it's elevation is 680 feet.)
That's because you're on a mountain peak. If the 4000 ft spot (similar to Rozenn's Alps examples) were at the bottom of a valley it could potentially get colder than the 850 mb due to cold air from higher up descending down the hillsides to the bottom of the valley.
Exactly. It always gets colder than the uppers here in winter.
That's because you're on a mountain peak. If the 4000 ft spot (similar to Rozenn's Alps examples) were at the bottom of a valley it could potentially get colder than the 850 mb due to cold air from higher up descending down the hillsides to the bottom of the valley.
Snow cover will effect night time lows as well. Here in upper Michigan we have long winters which contributes to daytime heating. It's all how you measure and what's most important records or averages.
I think altitude will always win out for colder weather and not Lattude . I lived not far from the highest point in eastern America, Mt Mitchell at 6800 plus feet., not habatial in winter. In eastern America the tree line is at 5,000 to 6,000 ft. Our mt. Tops were called bald's....due to the lack of any major size trees.
I choose altitude over latitude. I'd rather have a place lower latitude but higher up rather than higher latitude because it usually means less seasonal temperature range which I like.
I think altitude will always win out for colder weather and not Lattude . I lived not far from the highest point in eastern America, Mt Mitchell at 6800 plus feet., not habatial in winter. In eastern America the tree line is at 5,000 to 6,000 ft. Our mt. Tops were called bald's....due to the lack of any major size trees.
The treeline can be low even without cold. The foroe islands do not have any trees and where I live the treeline is about 2000feet.
The treeline is 400 miles from my house.
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