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View Poll Results: What temperature range is necessary for a climate to have 4 seasons?
0-5C 1 3.70%
5-10C 4 14.81%
10-15C 6 22.22%
15-20C 5 18.52%
20-25C 6 22.22%
greater than 25C 5 18.52%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-14-2013, 11:01 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, BC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagogeorge View Post
It's not just me. Just ask anyone who lives in Chicago, NYC, Philadelphia, Rome, Madrid, or any other city located on or around the 41N line (much less anyone further south) what mid summer lows they would be accustomed to, they would say 20C is more or less typical. A 20C high would be a record breaking low max temp.
What about San Francisco and Auckland at 37 latitude?

San Francisco - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Auckland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not everywhere at or around 40 latitude has Chicago like summers.
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Old 08-15-2013, 02:46 AM
 
Location: Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagogeorge View Post
It's not just me. Just ask anyone who lives in Chicago, NYC, Philadelphia, Rome, Madrid, or any other city located on or around the 41N line (much less anyone further south) what mid summer lows they would be accustomed to, they would say 20C is more or less typical. A 20C high would be a record breaking low max temp.
Referring only to climate in terms of latitude shows only ignorance in the world's weather. Simply latitude is not an indicator how the temps 'should' be. Most people don't even know what latitude they are on, the more east you go, most people don't even know what latitude is.
Am I supposed to say that if it's -10C here and I'm freezing, that "it isn't cold, Yukon has -35C at the moment and Siberia -40C"?

Most posters here are from the US, Europe or Australia/NZ, and the vast majority of us think that 20C are summer temperatures. I don't care what an Pakistani person thinks what is normal summer temperatures. They are not here! I don't see any point thinking as a global conscious way, but at the same time when it comes to what I think, the seven billion don't matter anymore, only me does!

Telling everybody all the time "I think 24C highs are 'spring-like' summers and your climate is terrible, I would die there" brings absolutely zero value to the discussion.
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Old 08-15-2013, 03:29 AM
 
Location: NSW
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I think a 4 season climate can have a minimum range of just under 5C to feel like it is seasonal, paticularly if it is mainly higher humidity in summer.
Hence I am the only one to tick that box.
Eg an 18C max in winter and 23C max in summer is still 4 seasons to me, so even somewhere like the Namibian or Chilean/Peruvian coastlines can still have 4 seasons, along with some subtropical highland places (although they tend to have a greater discrepancy in night time temperatures).
As long as the coldest month has maximums under 19C it has a winter, and hottest month over 22C in summer.
Basically this would be a classified here as a cool-mild winter with a mild-warm summer.
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Old 08-15-2013, 07:14 AM
 
Location: USA East Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
Referring only to climate in terms of latitude shows only ignorance in the world's weather. Simply latitude is not an indicator how the temps 'should' be. Most people don't even know what latitude they are on, the more east you go, most people don't even know what latitude is.
Am I supposed to say that if it's -10C here and I'm freezing, that "it isn't cold, Yukon has -35C at the moment and Siberia -40C"?

Most posters here are from the US, Europe or Australia/NZ, and the vast majority of us think that 20C are summer temperatures. I don't care what an Pakistani person thinks what is normal summer temperatures. They are not here! I don't see any point thinking as a global conscious way, but at the same time when it comes to what I think, the seven billion don't matter anymore, only me does!

Telling everybody all the time "I think 24C highs are 'spring-like' summers and your climate is terrible, I would die there" brings absolutely zero value to the discussion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagogeorge View Post
20C is your cut off for a summer high? That would be a decent summer low for me

I think the issue of "perspective" gets lost in this. Further, it seems fair that the perspective of the greater (more people on earth live in hot summer or subtropical climates) should be as important (if not more important) than the perspective of the fewer (those who live in cool summer/oceanic/high latitude climates).

I’ve lived my whole life between 25 and 40 latitude…and I don’t consider 20 C summer like at all (not even close), nor would most of the 320,000,000 people in the USA. About 75% of the world’s population from the Equator to 45 latitude has at least some point in the climate year that has high temps of over 20 C. In the USA – 85% of the mainland has highs over 26 C for 3 to 4 months, let alone 20 C.

I think it’s time for those who live in the high latitudes/cool oceanic climates to remember (and accept) they are in the minority – not majority…. when it comes to typical summer/hot season temps. A typical summer in a oceanic or high latitude climate would be the cool season or spring/fall weather for hundreds of millions on earth, esp for those of us from 40 latitude southward.

As far as what temp range is needed to have a true 4 season climate, I think it can be meaningless what the annual range is if each of the respective seasons lacks the typical weather/look and feel of that season. If winter is supposed to be cold with snow, summer hot and sunny, spring warm/growth, and fall is crisp and leaves change, then few climates really have 4 seasons. Vast areas of the lower middle latitudes (30 to 40 N/S) have climates where there is plant growth 12 months a year.

In fact, IMO, most places in the lower middle latitudes (30 to maybe 42 latitude) really have only two seasons – a warm/hot season and a cool season.

Last edited by wavehunter007; 08-15-2013 at 07:27 AM..
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:03 AM
 
21,898 posts, read 11,565,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
Referring only to climate in terms of latitude shows only ignorance in the world's weather. Simply latitude is not an indicator how the temps 'should' be. Most people don't even know what latitude they are on, the more east you go, most people don't even know what latitude is.
Am I supposed to say that if it's -10C here and I'm freezing, that "it isn't cold, Yukon has -35C at the moment and Siberia -40C"?
I know this. Obviously latitude is not the only factor, but it always gets thrown in my face when I express my idea of what a typical summer is when I speak with people who live in northern latitudes, but then all of the sudden when I express what a typical winter is to me, latitude somehow disappears from the equation, and we all of the sudden become "continental".


Quote:
Most posters here are from the US, Europe or Australia/NZ, and the vast majority of us think that 20C are summer temperatures.
I completely disagree

The only Americans who would think 20C high temps in are summer-like live on the tip of San Francisco Bay (and only on the tip because if you go 30km inland the temps are 10C warmer in the summer), and coastal Alaska (the interior actually gets much warmer). As for Europeans, like I said anyone living in the more southerly latitudes, such as Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Southern France, Romania, Hungary, the Balkans, or even in the Russian steppes at higher latitudes, would NO WAY think 20C is decent summer high temp. Most would call 20C spring or autumn, and in a significant part of the US, winter.... Neither would most Australians, and even Canadians (as most live near the US border) call 20C summer-like temp. This thread is titled "What temperature range is necessary for a climate to have 4 seasons?" And I expressed my opinion. As the forumer above said, Northern Europeans who believe 20C is an acceptable summer high are in the minority. You can have your opinion, but I can also have mine. If 20C is sound summer high temp, then you have to wonder why people from your part of the world get all excited when temps reach 30-35C+ in the summer. I always thought it's because you are finally getting a taste of what the rest of us are accustomed to in the summer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehunter007 View Post
If winter is supposed to be cold with snow, summer hot and sunny, spring warm/growth, and fall is crisp and leaves change, t.
That's my idea of four seasons

Last edited by chicagogeorge; 08-15-2013 at 08:25 AM..
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Leeds, UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehunter007 View Post

I think it’s time for those who live in the high latitudes/cool oceanic climates to remember (and accept) they are in the minority – not majority…. when it comes to typical summer/hot season temps. A typical summer in a oceanic or high latitude climate would be the cool season or spring/fall weather for hundreds of millions on earth, esp for those of us from 40 latitude southward.
To be honest, I'm not bothered about this - but I don't appreciate it when people tell me that I don't have a summer or that my climate is not a four-season climate. The perspective of the person who lives in said climate is a million times more important, and as the 'what does winter mean to you' poll shows, a lot of people think winter is just a season that is cooler than summer - so the same should apply in summer - summer is just the season that is warmer than winter. Anchorage has a summer, because it is the season that is the warmest, and that is what they are used to, and the perspective of those who don't live there is probably irrelevant (in fact I'm certain it is).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post

Telling everybody all the time "I think 24C highs are 'spring-like' summers and your climate is terrible, I would die there" brings absolutely zero value to the discussion.
Precisely. The fact that he keeps on mentioning it all the time is just plain irritating. We get it - summer in northern Europe is spring in Chicago - thanks for reminding us. You have made your point countless times since joining this forum in June.
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Buxton UK
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5-10C I'd say.

This year here has ranged from 1C (March) to 17C (July).
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Old 08-15-2013, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,268 posts, read 17,510,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehunter007 View Post
I think the issue of "perspective" gets lost in this. Further, it seems fair that the perspective of the greater (more people on earth live in hot summer or subtropical climates) should be as important (if not more important) than the perspective of the fewer (those who live in cool summer/oceanic/high latitude climates).

Ive lived my whole life between 25 and 40 latitudeand I dont consider 20 C summer like at all (not even close), nor would most of the 320,000,000 people in the USA. About 75% of the worlds population from the Equator to 45 latitude has at least some point in the climate year that has high temps of over 20 C. In the USA 85% of the mainland has highs over 26 C for 3 to 4 months, let alone 20 C.

I think its time for those who live in the high latitudes/cool oceanic climates to remember (and accept) they are in the minority not majority. when it comes to typical summer/hot season temps. A typical summer in a oceanic or high latitude climate would be the cool season or spring/fall weather for hundreds of millions on earth, esp for those of us from 40 latitude southward.
This is not about the world, I don't care and neither do you. You being from America, you should know that you don't care a sh*t about how half of the world's population thinks, even a third would be an improvement. But neither do I. My sphere of influence is Western Europe. There is no point in global consciousness. The regular posters here think 20C is summer temperatures and that's it. Where are all the Indian posters telling otherwise? If 90% percent of the posters here agree with me that 20C is summer, what's the point saying that some people in the world think otherwise. BTW, I met a Chinese person that thinks conscription should be mandatory. Hey, they have 4 times more people than the US has, so, when are you taking up arms? "This is an US website and Fahrenheit..." I think I've made my point.

I've lived all my life between 60'1N and 60'4 latitudes, but I can put into perspective how I feel summer and how others feel. You've lived in Florida, and so what? I could move as your neighbor, and after one year return here. Even though it was 25C in winter there, after a year I would still think that 20C here is summer after experiencing the cold winter. But, I would still cherish my experiences from Florida, but as an intelligent academic, I know adaptation is the key feature. I can bet a 1000 that either you or chicagogeorge would find Fairbanks' lame summers summers warm after you've experienced a Fairbanks winter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagogeorge View Post
I know this. Obviously latitude is not the only factor, but it always gets thrown in my face when I express my idea of what a typical summer is when I speak with people who live in northern latitudes, but then all of the sudden when I express what a typical winter is to me, latitude somehow disappears from the equation, and we all of the sudden become "continental".
Ok, let's make a deal. Chicago's avg low in January is -7.7C/18.2F and my is -7.3C/18.9F. I will remind you every single day that how terrible for humans that miserably cold freezing hellhole can be. And you're almost 20 degrees south from me. Chicago's winters are unbearable! And don't tell about Minnesota, the twin cities have an average high of -4.6C/23.7F in January, more than double lower than the winter high we get. How can human beings live with those places? Are the polar bears a menace? And being 16 degrees more south!
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Old 08-15-2013, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunno what to put here View Post
Are you really so arrogant that you will express your opinion as being an undeniable fact? I live in England - and we have four seasons in my eyes. I can tell all four apart easily. If you came here for 12 months and could not, then there is something wrong with you. To be frank, your opinion does not count for anything as far as the people living here are concerned. You do not get to decide what season we have.

I agree. I think it is all based on what you experience year in and year out. People in the UK know very well they have four seasons. Spring is diff than autumn, and summer is diff than spring. Anyone that has ever been there can tell you that. It is just that the differences are not as pronounced as here, or other continental climates. Doesn't mean they don't have four seasons. This is silly.
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Old 08-15-2013, 09:37 AM
 
21,898 posts, read 11,565,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
Ok, let's make a deal. Chicago's avg low in January is -7.7C/18.2F and my is -7.3C/18.9F. I will remind you every single day that how terrible for humans that miserably cold freezing hellhole can be. And you're almost 20 degrees south from me. Chicago's winters are unbearable! And don't tell about Minnesota, the twin cities have an average high of -4.6C/23.7F in January, more than double lower than the winter high we get. How can human beings live with those places? Are the polar bears a menace? And being 16 degrees more south!




I wish our winters were colder and snowier more like Minneapolis, so that we actually can keep a winter long snowpack. That I would be able to handle a deep winter as long as I knew that I was going to get the other end of the spectrum come summer.
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