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Old 08-28-2013, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
12,087 posts, read 9,606,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingGalah! View Post
Why are they not long term plantings?? There are CIDPs over 100 years old on Tresco & in Torquay, they have lived through some pretty cold winters! CIDP's are hardy where I live too, as it has never got cold enough here to kill them, the record low is -8C, the record low in Torquay is actually slightly lower at -8.9C...

It was in response to Ed about the palms in Paris. The CIDP's in the UK are not native was my point. By long term plantings I meant originally there as in "native", not how long they will last.
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Old 08-28-2013, 05:00 PM
 
Location: USA East Coast
4,445 posts, read 8,281,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons View Post
It was in response to Ed about the palms in Paris. The CIDP's in the UK are not native was my point. By long term plantings I meant originally there as in "native", not how long they will last.
Exactly.

While palms have been imported to temperate climates for 200 years…there are no “native” palms to many of the climates where they grow (like much of NW Europe or the PNW).

There are however "native" palms to many areas of places like south China/southern USA/eastern Australia …etc yet few are grown there (relative to them being native).
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Old 08-28-2013, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
15,875 posts, read 12,444,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehunter007 View Post
...and that was the point of my post (I don't know if you saw it) several pages back:

What’s ironic is that where there are palms planted (outside of the tropics of course)... has been misrepredted for so long that people now have no idea what’s right or wrong- lol (botanically speaking).

The history of palm/ subtropical plant cultivation in temperate climates started back in the 1800’s in Victoria era England. Robert Fortune brought back that Windmill Palm (Tracycarpus ) that everyone seems to hate (lol) to temperate climates. Yet in climates like Atlanta (that are subtropical though in the very edge) people had little interest in palms. You'll find this the world over, they grow palms in climates that never had any native palms anywhere near them...and often don't grow palms in climates that have native palms in/close to them. I know times are changing, but it's funny to see that even at one point there were more palms in climates like London or Seattle than in Atlanta or Shanghai.

That's the funny part to me.
I think NZ is an exception to this. Parts of the country that couldn't support the native palm, still to this day don't really have any palms (or they are very rare). Parts that did have the native palm, still didn't really get into palms in any great way other than botanical gardens etc.

What NZ primarily got from the Victorians, was a love affair with conifers,Deciduous trees, winter flowering plants, roses etc. It was really a reaction to the "foreign" nature of NZ Flora.
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Old 08-28-2013, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Long Island/NYC
11,294 posts, read 16,397,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed's Mountain View Post
As before, most are scrubby little things hardly worth the time of day. Royal Palm is an exception, but it just floated over from Cuba anyway.
That is the ugliest Needle Palm I've ever seen, it almost doesn't even look like one. I hate when people go overboard with the trimming, especially when they give Phoenix palms the pineapple look.

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Old 08-28-2013, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Near Tours, France about 47°10'N 0°25'E
2,872 posts, read 3,787,435 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehunter007 View Post
That might be the case in the temperate climates of Europe (no native palms)
There is the chamaerops, which is native to Europe Chamaerops - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(All Europe climates are temperate climates btw)


Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehunter007 View Post
- and even California (only one native palm - Washingtonia)....but that incorrect in the Gulf/South Atlantic states, and esp Florida.

Florida has at least 7 types of native palms...including, Thrinax (Florida Thatchpalm), Serenoa repens (Saw Palm), Coccothrinax(Florida Silver Palm), Acoelorrhaphe (Paurotis Palm), Roystanea (Florida Royal Palm), Sable Palm (Sabal Palmetto), Needle Palm. Coconut palms have been growing wild in the Florida Keys since it was discovered in the 1500's.
Southern Florida has lots of tropical palms, but I thought more about the "old south", the more subtropical area of southern US rather than the tropical strip of Florida.

My point is not that there aren't palms native from those areas (I thought mostly about California), the fact is that most of the ones we can see on the streets, cities, seashores (and which fit perfectly there) are more mikely to have been planted by man not so long ago.
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:17 PM
 
10,396 posts, read 7,478,326 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex985 View Post
Why is this a strange thread? Not everyone has to drool over tropical vegetation and climate, especially if you've lived in 90% of your life in such climates.
The only vegetation I could ever hate would be those stickers that stab feet and paws and get tangled up in horse manes. Why hate a tree? It just seems strange to me.
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Broward County, FL
16,206 posts, read 7,643,964 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterseat View Post
The only vegetation I could ever hate would be those stickers that stab feet and paws and get tangled up in horse manes. Why hate a tree? It just seems strange to me.
First off, I said "dislike". Second, I said I don't like the look of them when they're out of their native range, they look ugly in my opinion. Jeez, I don't know how many times I've said that.



I think you're talking about Spanish Moss, btw.
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:36 PM
 
Location: USA East Coast
4,445 posts, read 8,281,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by french user View Post
There is the chamaerops, which is native to Europe Chamaerops - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(All Europe climates are temperate climates btw)

When I said Europe... I was referring to areas north of the Mediterranean Sea. I think chamaerops is native to southern Spain and southern Italy. There are no palms native to temperate Europe from what I understand.

Most climatologists make a distinction between "temperate Europe/D Climates" (UK, Germany, northern/central France, Denmark, Ireland, Poland..etc)...and "subtropical southern Europe/ C climates (Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece, far southern France, ...etc).


Quote:
Originally Posted by french user View Post

Southern Florida has lots of tropical palms, but I thought more about the "old south", the more subtropical area of southern US rather than the tropical strip of Florida. My point is not that there aren't palms native from those areas (I thought mostly about California), the fact is that most of the ones we can see on the streets, cities, seashores (and which fit perfectly there) are more mikely to have been planted by man not so long ago.
I think I get what you’re trying to say here:

There is a distinction between the more tropical palms in the southern half of Florida and those in the “old South” (and I’m assuming you mean states like Louisiana, South Carolina, Georgia). However, there are a few palms that are "native" to the Old South that where there BEFORE humans (Sabal, Serenoa, Rhapidophyllum hystrix, that I know of). Generations ago (1800’s) most of the palms one saw in the Old South port cities (like New Orleans or Savannah) where one or more of these palms. However, these days your right - one is more likely to see non native palms that humans have introduced to the southern USA ( Butia, Queen, Washingonia, Canary Island Date Palm…etc).

My point (and one that I think gets lost in the hatred/love of palms), is that in many areas where palms grow wild (like Florida or parts of Australia for example) people within those areas seem like they could care less about planting a palm ….while in contrast those in decidedly temperate and higher latitude locals (like NW Europe or the PNW) seem to plant any and all palms that will grow. It is a bit ironic I thought.
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Middle Tennessee
183,885 posts, read 74,980,809 times
Reputation: 128850
I don't like most palms unless they are the cabbage palm growing in the wild where they are native. I never want another palm in my yard to clean up after. They sure can make a mess.
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Old 08-28-2013, 08:06 PM
 
10,396 posts, read 7,478,326 times
Reputation: 18317
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex985 View Post
First off, I said "dislike". Second, I said I don't like the look of them when they're out of their native range, they look ugly in my opinion. Jeez, I don't know how many times I've said that.



I think you're talking about Spanish Moss, btw.
Sorry. 15 pages or so of palm slander. j/k palm dislike was too much. so I don't know how many times either.

I just like trees, though I'm not a hugger... unless I know and have a favorable relationship with one.

Pines make a huge mess in yards but I love them anyway.

Spanish moss? me? The stickers? More like cockleburs.
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