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Old 08-29-2013, 02:34 AM
 
Location: Near Tours, France about 47°10'N 0°25'E
2,872 posts, read 3,793,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
The south of France would look like that in winter though, wouldn't it? I don't mean architecture or landscape, but the green grass and deciduous trees would be reasonably common during a Mediterranean winter, I would have thought.
The typical mediterranean forestal vegetation is mostly not made of decidous trees, but mostly evergreen species: pines (maritime pine, other pines), evergreen oaks, olive trees, guarrigue, maquis, etc. Decidous trees are, among some others, mostly the platanus used as lines of trees in cities.
The grass is usually not very green in winter, but rather green in spring.

interior of mediterranean region in winter:





More on the coast:






Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
I think the Scilly botanical gardens could look a lot more like Mediterranean France, if the owners so wished.
What meant is that the surrounding of this garden in those islands has an ambiance that feels very oceanic. Which for me is not a problem for having palms since they adapt to the place without artificial feature would mean the climate is OK, but maybe some people think palms can't match with oceanic ambiances? I don't know...

Last edited by french user; 08-29-2013 at 03:14 AM..
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Old 08-29-2013, 04:15 AM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
15,901 posts, read 12,465,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by french user View Post
The typical mediterranean forestal vegetation is mostly not made of decidous trees, but mostly evergreen species: pines (maritime pine, other pines), evergreen oaks, olive trees, guarrigue, maquis, etc. Decidous trees are, among some others, mostly the platanus used as lines of trees in cities.
The grass is usually not very green in winter, but rather green in spring.

interior of mediterranean region in winter:





More on the coast:








What meant is that the surrounding of this garden in those islands has an ambiance that feels very oceanic. Which for me is not a problem for having palms since they adapt to the place without artificial feature would mean the climate is OK, but maybe some people think palms can't match with oceanic ambiances? I don't know...
It's all relative I guess. Apart from the obvious architectural clues, those photos look like Oceanic climates to me. Take the buildings away and it could be many Oceanic locations. The middle photo in particular, looks very similar to the photo of Scilly.
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:03 AM
 
Location: Leeds, UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
Sparse hills would probably indicate what the climate was at one time, not what it is now.
Regardless, it just doesn't feel right to me. They're nice gardens mind you.
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:28 AM
 
Location: Near Tours, France about 47°10'N 0°25'E
2,872 posts, read 3,793,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
It's all relative I guess. Apart from the obvious architectural clues, those photos look like Oceanic climates to me. Take the buildings away and it could be many Oceanic locations. The middle photo in particular, looks very similar to the photo of Scilly.
Well, I doubt Scilly in winter would look like these...

That's maybe because you are not from Europe and have no defined picture of what is "oceanic" or "mediterranean" in Europe. All the vegetation in the picture i've give is typically mediterranean and not "oceanic": avergreen parasol pine forest (as seen in the second picture), as weel as the everygreen martime pine forest in the hills in the backgrounds, the guarrigue, maquis, olive trees, cypresses, evergreen oaks, seen in those picture are not oceanic at all. In the second picture the green grass space is a golf and is green because the grass is artificially maintained green... and not a green pastoral fields as typically found in Britain, or Scilly.

There are parts of the Atlantic Europe, in the "dry" oceanic climates (especially in the south-western part of Europe, from Nantes to Portugal) where there local vegentation are a mix of mediterranean and oceanic vegetations, but more "pure" oceanic vegetation as found in places further north (Britanny, Normandy, British isles, Netherlands, etc is totally different, no confusion possible.

mediterranean coast in winter:







Winter countryside scene; olive


other winter scene: flowering of mimosas in February:

Last edited by french user; 08-29-2013 at 06:54 AM..
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Old 08-29-2013, 07:21 AM
 
Location: St Paul's Bay, Malta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehunter007 View Post
Exactly.

While palms have been imported to temperate climates for 200 years…there are no “native” palms to many of the climates where they grow (like much of NW Europe or the PNW).

There are however "native" palms to many areas of places like south China/southern USA/eastern Australia …etc yet few are grown there (relative to them being native).
I don't understand the problem with growing palms where they are not native?? As I mentioned earlier if you were to take a walk around a typical English garden you would find that 99% of the plants/shrubs/trees planted in them are NOT native to the UK. Many common garden plants that you see in the UK come from all over the world, so why are those not deemed out of place? Does it purely come down to the fact that a palm tree just looks tropical??
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Old 08-29-2013, 10:45 AM
 
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I don;t dislike palm tress per se, but I think they look unnatural in a lot of places. They can grow in the Houston area just fine, but they do not gel well at all aesthetically with the native flora.
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Old 08-29-2013, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
15,901 posts, read 12,465,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by french user View Post
Well, I doubt Scilly in winter would look like these...

That's maybe because you are not from Europe and have no defined picture of what is "oceanic" or "mediterranean" in Europe. All the vegetation in the picture i've give is typically mediterranean and not "oceanic": avergreen parasol pine forest (as seen in the second picture), as weel as the everygreen martime pine forest in the hills in the backgrounds, the guarrigue, maquis, olive trees, cypresses, evergreen oaks, seen in those picture are not oceanic at all. In the second picture the green grass space is a golf and is green because the grass is artificially maintained green... and not a green pastoral fields as typically found in Britain, or Scilly.

There are parts of the Atlantic Europe, in the "dry" oceanic climates (especially in the south-western part of Europe, from Nantes to Portugal) where there local vegentation are a mix of mediterranean and oceanic vegetations, but more "pure" oceanic vegetation as found in places further north (Britanny, Normandy, British isles, Netherlands, etc is totally different, no confusion possible.

mediterranean coast in winter:





Winter countryside scene; olive


other winter scene: flowering of mimosas in February:

Sure , the landscapes in those photos looks typically European Mediterranean, but the vegetation in your photo of Scilly didn't look any different to a couple of the first images you posted. The climate of Scilly could support any of the species you mentioned, but reflects the fact that it's a botanical garden -so a greater mixture.

You say that it (Scilly) has a Oceanic ambience, but without obvious clues (architecture and landscape) I doubt many would think it was a typical Oceanic winter scene. The scene of Scilly is far from what I would consider a "pure" Oceanic look, by European standards..

Grass doesn't grow in the French Mediterranean during winter? . I would have thought it would be at it's greenest then - the same as here, cutting lawns all winter, even with average minimums only a degree or two above freezing
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Old 08-29-2013, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Near Tours, France about 47°10'N 0°25'E
2,872 posts, read 3,793,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
Sure , the landscapes in those photos looks typically European Mediterranean, but the vegetation in your photo of Scilly didn't look any different to a couple of the first images you posted. The climate of Scilly could support any of the species you mentioned, but reflects the fact that it's a botanical garden -so a greater mixture.

You say that it (Scilly) has a Oceanic ambience, but without obvious clues (architecture and landscape) I doubt many would think it was a typical Oceanic winter scene. The scene of Scilly is far from what I would consider a "pure" Oceanic look, by European standards..


Scilly islands:
https://www.google.fr/search?q=scill...w=1600&bih=627

The ambiance in those islands is not mediterranean. It is not because one pictures taken from the exotic garden show some mediterranean speacies, or that most of the picture have been taken with days of sunshine that the place as a whole look mediterranean.
The scilly islands in climate and vegetation look like Britanny, or Normandy which is in france the most oceanic place we can have.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
Grass doesn't grow in the French Mediterranean during winter? . I would have thought it would be at it's greenest then - the same as here, cutting lawns all winter, even with average minimums only a degree or two above freezing
grass is greener in winter than in summer, but large lawns of grass are uncommon in mediterranean climates, simply because they would be too dry during the summer, and sometimes even in winter. Also the contryside and landscape is not following the same patterns as in the oceanic areas of Britain, Britanny and Normandy where the "bocage"* type of landscape predominates, with lots of pastures fieds*. In mediterranean areas the pastures are mostly in the moutainous areas, in the Alps or Pyrennes, most agricultural space in plains is dedicated to other culures (wines, olives trees, fruits, lavenders, etc... not to grass. There are not either large decidous forest, with big trees, trees are small and poor, mostly are martimes pines and evergreens, that's totally different.
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Old 08-29-2013, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
15,901 posts, read 12,465,198 times
Reputation: 5065
Quote:
Originally Posted by french user View Post
Scilly islands:
https://www.google.fr/search?q=scill...w=1600&bih=627

The ambiance in those islands is not mediterranean. It is not because one pictures taken from the exotic garden show some mediterranean speacies, or that most of the picture have been taken with days of sunshine that the place as a whole look mediterranean.
The scilly islands in climate and vegetation look like Britanny, or Normandy which is in france the most oceanic place we can have.




grass is greener in winter than in summer, but large lawns of grass are uncommon in mediterranean climates, simply because they would be too dry during the summer, and sometimes even in winter. Also the contryside and landscape is not following the same patterns as in the oceanic areas of Britain, Britanny and Normandy where the "bocage"* type of landscape predominates, with lots of pastures fieds*. In mediterranean areas the pastures are mostly in the moutainous areas, in the Alps or Pyrennes, most agricultural space in plains is dedicated to other culures (wines, olives trees, fruits, lavenders, etc... not to grass. There are not either large decidous forest, with big trees, trees are small and poor, mostly are martimes pines and evergreens, that's totally different.
I'm not saying the ambience in Scilly is mediterranean, just that it doesn't look that different from the first images you posted. It certainly doesn't look typically European Oceanic.

Bocage - my new word for the day. I will have to casually drop it into conversation, with some french friends.
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Old 08-29-2013, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Spokane, WA
847 posts, read 3,013,165 times
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I'll tell you what gets tiresome: miles and miles and miles and miles of pine and fir trees in Washington State. I finally had to move...
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