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Old 09-06-2013, 12:50 AM
 
Location: Windsor, Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Not necessarily. It moderates a climate, it doesn't make it warmer unless you found an economically viable way to artificially heat up the water. Moderating a climate means warming the winter temp, cooling the summer temp. Hudson Bay does nothing to warm up the winter, as most of the bay is frozen over in winter
Come now, tubw. Are you seriously saying this isn't dumping heat into Canada in the winter?



Actually, this is April.


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Old 09-06-2013, 06:03 AM
 
Location: Near the Coast SWCT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
I think Hudson Bay does play a significant role in eastern North America's climate, especially considering that it when you look at temp maps of the US in winter, oftentimes Montana is warmer than the Northeast
Agree Hudson Bay has its affects but Again it depends what the pattern is doing.

Take current for example. How is the Hudson Bay affecting U.S right now? Its not. Winds are not going south/southeast.

But yeah, if its frozen over, the winds have no friction over ice so cold air drives over it easier, but its all about how the pattern is. Not as simple as saying it plays a "significant" role. Eastern Canada, yes...Eastern US not so much.

It's not that large a body of water anyway compared to lets say the Atlantic/Pacific/ect affecting climates. Look at the upper level pattern to see whats going on, that dictates the flow of everything.

Montana warmer than the Northeast?? Bold statement.. What "northeast" location are you referring to? Comparing a state to a region is bold but interesting.
Attached Thumbnails
Why is N. America Colder than W. Europe - Blame the Rocky Mountains-850mb6.jpg  

Last edited by Cambium; 09-06-2013 at 06:12 AM.. Reason: Forgot to Add pic
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Old 09-06-2013, 07:45 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Western Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cambium View Post
Agree Hudson Bay has its affects but Again it depends what the pattern is doing.
Which is why to see the long-term effect I'd look at the average.

Quote:
Montana warmer than the Northeast?? Bold statement.. What "northeast" location are you referring to? Comparing a state to a region is bold but interesting.
In the winter, western Montana is somewhat warmer than northern New England. Montana's climate is rather variable, and northern New England isn't exactly consistent either, so it should be easy to winter days when Montana is warmer than the Northeast, even further south.

Thinking about the Rockies influence in the winter, I just realized these maps made it very clear. Look at the bend in the contours to the east of the Rockies:

PRISM Products

PRISM Products

The bend is in the shape of a wave (Rossby Wave?), and notice that the coolest temperatures are nearly 1000 miles to the east of the Rockies. The mean max in northern Montana at the base of the Rockies is similar to central Illinois! Mins are a bit less drastic, but similar shape. If the Rockies weren't there, a dramatic bend would be unlikely; the shadings would go west-east. East of the Cascades but west of the Rockies, the climate is milder and the temperatures don't drop as much going east, though it's muddled from elevation. A similar bend in the wintertime map of Canada:

http://ftp2.cits.rncan.gc.ca/pub/geo...te/mcr4058.jpg

but it peters out going north. And the Rockies get shorter north of about 55N.
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Old 09-06-2013, 05:09 PM
 
Location: Vernon, British Columbia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Yeah that's basically what I said in my previous posts. North America is more conducive to lower temperatures and snowfall than Asia is, especially Canada. Canada is significantly cooler in summer than Siberia is.
Thanks to Hudson Bay.
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Old 09-06-2013, 05:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cambium View Post
Agree Hudson Bay has its affects but Again it depends what the pattern is doing.

Take current for example. How is the Hudson Bay affecting U.S right now? Its not. Winds are not going south/southeast.

But yeah, if its frozen over, the winds have no friction over ice so cold air drives over it easier, but its all about how the pattern is. Not as simple as saying it plays a "significant" role. Eastern Canada, yes...Eastern US not so much.

It's not that large a body of water anyway compared to lets say the Atlantic/Pacific/ect affecting climates. Look at the upper level pattern to see whats going on, that dictates the flow of everything.

Montana warmer than the Northeast?? Bold statement.. What "northeast" location are you referring to? Comparing a state to a region is bold but interesting.
Ahh I see. So even though it's arge, it's not so large that it's going to have effects across the entire US as well, unless the wind is blowing in the right direction. So, it's influence is mainly limited to Quebec and Labrador?

I should have clarified. Let's compare Montana's warmth to, say, Maine. Maine is at a lower latitude than Montana, but Maine looks like it records much lower temps more frequently. I wonder how much effect Hudson Bay has on those occasions. I'm just like you in winter. I always like to see what influences the Bay has over our winter weather here.
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Old 09-06-2013, 05:55 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Western Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post

I should have clarified. Let's compare Montana's warmth to, say, Maine. Maine is at a lower latitude than Montana, but Maine looks like it records much lower temps more frequently. I wonder how much effect Hudson Bay has on those occasions. I'm just like you in winter. I always like to see what influences the Bay has over our winter weather here.
where in Montana?
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Old 09-06-2013, 05:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnatomicflux View Post
Come now, tubw. Are you seriously saying this isn't dumping heat into Canada in the winter?



Actually, this is April.

Lol, just correcting owen's choice of words. If water did heat up temperatures as owen put it, Quebec and the little section of northeast Ontario on St. James Bay wouldn't have the lowest tree line in the world.

That is a beautiful picture Can't believe that is April. All of Europe, except probably Lapland, would be defrosted already.
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Old 09-06-2013, 05:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
where in Montana?

If memory serves right, usually from Billings to the Alberta border. I'm gonna pay close attention to temperature patterns this winter, unless there is somewhere that has an archive of temperature graphics. Eastern half of Montana is usually the same temp as North Dakota. Again, I need to pay more attention to the Mountain West this winter. My eyes are always on the Northeast US
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Old 09-06-2013, 05:59 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Western Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
If memory serves right, usually from Billings to the Rockies. I'm gonna pay close attention to temperature patterns this winter, unless there is somewhere that has an archive of temperature graphics
Take a look at my prism links above to January temps. Lowest winter temps are well shown by plant hardiness maps:



Interestingly, there's less of a southern dip or wave in coldest winter temperatures than in average ones. So, the Rockies have more of an effect on averages than extremes?
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Old 09-06-2013, 06:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Take a look at my prism links above to January temps. Lowest winter temps are well shown by plant hardiness maps:



Interestingly, there's less of a southern dip or wave in coldest winter temperatures than in average ones. So, the Rockies have more of an effect on averages than extremes?
yeah I see that, but I'm sure you've noticed it, as well? Like, it would be 50 degrees, let's say, in Billings but 20 degrees in Minneapolis and 32 degrees in Boston, etc.?
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