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Old 09-06-2013, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Near the Coast SWCT
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Actual surface temps December 8th last year. Look at the West side of the Hudson Bay (while frozen over)

There's more too it guys than calling out an individual source
Attached Thumbnails
Effect of Hudson Bay on North America's climate-temps40.jpg  
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Old 09-06-2013, 07:49 AM
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Location: Western Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cambium View Post
Actual surface temps December 8th last year. Look at the West side of the Hudson Bay (while frozen over)
A daily map really isn't relevant. Why do post those on a climate thread? Day to day weather will blur the effect, because there's plenty of other things that change day to day.

Quote:
There's more too it guys than calling out an individual source
of course, but I'm interested in what effect the individual effect is.
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Old 09-06-2013, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
I'd like this to be an offshoot of sorts to tom77falcon's Rocky Mountains topic. Are there any academic papers discussing Hudson Bay's role in North America's climate? What if it wasn't there, what if it was much deeper than it is now, what if it was sealed off from the Arctic? What we do know already is that the bay contributes (or rather is the sole reason?) to North America having the lowest tree line in the world, at sea level, as well as the lowest overall temperature given the latitude. Did the bay also contribute to the far reach of the glaciers doing the last glacial maximum? No other place in the world had glaciers reach as far south as it did in North America. I believe the southernmost extent of the glaciers was 37°N (specifically at the Ohio River in Illinois)?

The last point I mentioned, we can skip the part about Russia having colder winters compared to Quebec. Yes I know that is the case, but Siberia has hot summers to compensate for their very cold winters. Quebec does not, on the other hand.
It depends on what you consider "hot" summers. Most of the areas of Quebec close to James and Hudson Bay have maximums between 20 and 23C during the summer. (Except for the extreme north polar and sub-polar areas like Salluit and Kujjuaq where summer highs are generally around 10-12C.)

Looking at Siberia it seems more in the range of 23-26C (once again except for the extreme north). Of course, in both areas summer temperatures over 30C and even reaching 35C are possible in any given year.

But you have to get down into southern Quebec around Montreal to find average summer maximums around 27-28C.
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Old 09-06-2013, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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Also, looking at most of Quebec even in the far north, the all-time record lows would be basically just a normal winter in the Yakutsk region of Siberia.

The all-time record low in Quebec is -54.4C. Many places in northern Quebec have record lows warmer than -40C, many just over that threshold. Most are in the -45C range. Pretty much an average winter in much of Siberia's pole of cold.

The record low in Salluit at the extreme northern tip of Quebec is only (sic) -49C.
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Old 09-06-2013, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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Now, living where I do in extreme southwestern Quebec on the border with Ontario, you do feel the cold come down from Hudson and James bays when the weather cools down. It's very obvious that that's where it is originating, as it's directly northwest of us and northwest winds always bring a significant cool down or even bitter cold snaps here.
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Old 09-06-2013, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Near the Coast SWCT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
A daily map really isn't relevant. Why do post those on a climate thread? Day to day weather will blur the effect, because there's plenty of other things that change day to day.

of course, but I'm interested in what effect the individual effect is.
because you are trying to justify a single source as the reason. It's not. if that was the case then you would see it on a daily basis. That's why I post them.

And FYI, Difference between Climate and weather is simply a measure of time. We're discussing the "temps" and "affects" of the Hudson Bay. Daily data make the climate don't they??

You said it yourself, "individual" affect. Hence my maps.

Look at the patterns and start to the west...

If there's a frozen body of water like the Hudson bay and the eastern side of it in Canada is warmer than the western side, what is that telling you? ?

Why you're choosing to ignore the upper air patterns and target a single source at the surface is beyond me.
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Old 09-06-2013, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Near the Coast SWCT
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
It's very obvious that that's where it is originating, as it's directly northwest of us and northwest winds always bring a significant cool down or even bitter cold snaps here.
Exactly.. "winds". Look at the upper level pattern including the mid levels and surface. The actual "bay" itself isn't the reason... It's a factor of course, and it sure does help, but it's not the reason for cooler average temps on the east side.(which I haven't seen a map of yet)
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Old 09-06-2013, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Near the Coast SWCT
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And just so we have on file.. here's the Elevation map which would obviously contribute to temps/climate

Looks pretty similar on both sides I think. One can argue there's a few more spots of higher elevations on the eastern side closest to the Bay.

You want to do a study? Figure out how many stations are factored into the average on the West and East sides. Let us know.

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Old 09-06-2013, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cambium View Post
Exactly.. "winds". Look at the upper level pattern including the mid levels and surface. The actual "bay" itself isn't the reason... It's a factor of course, and it sure does help, but it's not the reason for cooler average temps on the east side.(which I haven't seen a map of yet)
I suspect that cold air flows fairly directly southward from the extreme far north (Arctic Ocean) etc., and gets pushed more easterly than it otherwise would because of all those mountains to the west.

As for it being colder to the east than just to the west, I will have to check.
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Old 09-06-2013, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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OK so looking at it Inukjuak on the east side is quite similar in climate to Churchill on the west side.


Does not seem to be much of a difference east vs west. Until you get across those mountains of course.
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