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Old 09-06-2013, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Near the Coast SWCT
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Couple of posts of mine just in case you guys think I don't think it has an affect. I always love talking about the Bay around this time of year and in winter especially if the pattern is ripe for Eastern U.S to feel the affects.

January 3, 2012 talking about the Bay and being frozen over.

December 4, 2012 talking about when the freezer doors open and the Bay freezing over

December 5, 2012 talking about the winds and how much ice it had compared to previous years
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Old 09-06-2013, 01:12 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Western Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cambium View Post
because you are trying to justify a single source as the reason. It's not.
No, where'd you get that idea from?! The question asked is: what effect the Hudson Bay has on the climate of North America. Not: is the single cause of anything.

Quote:
if that was the case then you would see it on a daily basis. That's why I post them.
I wouldn't expect to see it every day. As you know very well, day to day weather is extremely variable. There are many patterns I wouldn't expect see on a daily basis. You can find many examples on days with completely different temperatures, air patterns setup.

It's possible that the Hudson Bay makes Canada to the east somewhat colder on average than west of the bay. That does NOT mean, everyday east of the Hudson Bay is colder than west of the Hudson Bay. It is possible to have many days where east of Hudson Bay is warmer than west of Hudson Bay, as your example shows, even if on average the east side is colder. A one day picture is unhelpful at telling us what happens on average. The map I posted here of mean temperatures is more useful. Doesn't seem to show much effect IMO.

Ditto with the previous Rockies thread, which you seemed to have misinterpreted. Saying the Rockies make North American winters colder than otherwise means on average they increase the severity of the cold. It does NOT mean:

1) The air patterns are affected by the Rockies every day
2) The Rockies are the only factor in making North American winters

Quote:
And FYI, Difference between Climate and weather is simply a measure of time. We're discussing the "temps" and "affects" of the Hudson Bay. Daily data make the climate don't they??
Except climate is the average of years of daily data. You can pick any day out of say January and it is unlikely to similar to the average January climate. There are day to day weather fluctuations that get removed when averaged out. These day to day temperature fluctations are probably bigger than however cooling effect the Hudson Bay has, so without averaging they would be difficult to notice. A body of water (or mountains) could make one type of weather somewhat more likely and another less likely, but it would be hard to tell looking at day to day patterns.


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If there's a frozen body of water like the Hudson bay and the eastern side of it in Canada is warmer than the western side, what is that telling you?
For one day, nothing.

Quote:
Why you're choosing to ignore the upper air patterns and target a single source at the surface is beyond me.
Some are curious what effect one single source has. I don't see what's so strange about that.
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Old 09-06-2013, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Madison, WI
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No effect. Zero.
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Old 09-06-2013, 04:03 PM
 
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My guess is that during the winter, the Hudson would act as insulation when compared to the western part of Canada. However, during the summer it would act as a cooler and would probably promote more troughing over eastern Canada and inevitably effect the eastern US. More importantly, the NAO is the dominant factor controlling climate variability over eastern Canada.


Quote:
Ask Tom Why: Does Hudson Bay have any effect on Chicago weather?
May 27, 2010

Though Hudson Bay is more than 1,000 miles to our north, its icy waters do play a role in Chicago's weather. That region is a frequent host to large, stationary high pressure systems that keep a sustained northeast flow of air into the Midwest and Chicago. The air of arctic origin is not only cold, but also dry and can bring extended periods of cool and dry weather to Chicago during spring, summer and fall. When this type of flow occurs in winter, the result is often a prolonged period of cloudy, snowy weather. The snow is usually light due to lack of moisture except where the lake-effect from the Great Lakes enhances totals. When low pressure is parked over Hudson Bay in winter Chicago can be in line for major arctic outbreaks and sustained periods of severe cold.
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Old 09-06-2013, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Near the Coast SWCT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagogeorge View Post
. Ask Tom Why: Does Hudson Bay have any effect on Chicago weather? May 27, 2010

Though Hudson Bay is more than 1,000 miles to our north, its icy waters do play a role in Chicago's weather. That region is a frequent host to large, stationary high pressure systems that keep a sustained northeast flow of air into the Midwest and Chicago. The air of arctic origin is not only cold, but also dry and can bring extended periods of cool and dry weather to Chicago during spring, summer and fall. When this type of flow occurs in winter, the result is often a prolonged period of cloudy, snowy weather. The snow is usually light due to lack of moisture except where the lake-effect from the Great Lakes enhances totals. When low pressure is parked over Hudson Bay in winter Chicago can be in line for major arctic outbreaks and sustained periods of severe cold

Bingo. I preach this to so many. I bolded the important parts. The arctic plays a role. The flow plays a role. The high pressures and the low pressures play a role in affecting Midwest and Eastern Canada & US. There's the reasons. Not just as simple as a mountain or body of water. If one of those reasons aren't around then the theory is non existant. So it would be cool if we talked about the usual flow of things rather then single out one thing.

Look to the west...and north.

Just playing devils advocate and keeping the minds sharp. I love hearing and talking about how the Bay affects the "weather". Let's get that thing frozen and our "chances" increase for cold arctic air in the states.

Climate and weather is a marriage of everything.

And has anyone posted Canada's average seasonal temps?
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Old 09-06-2013, 05:45 PM
 
25,060 posts, read 22,101,322 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cambium View Post
Bingo. I preach this to so many. I bolded the important parts. The arctic plays a role. The flow plays a role. The high pressures and the low pressures play a role in affecting Midwest and Eastern Canada & US. There's the reasons. Not just as simple as a mountain or body of water. If one of those reasons aren't around then the theory is non existant. So it would be cool if we talked about the usual flow of things rather then single out one thing.

Look to the west...and north.

Just playing devils advocate and keeping the minds sharp. I love hearing and talking about how the Bay affects the "weather". Let's get that thing frozen and our "chances" increase for cold arctic air in the states.

Climate and weather is a marriage of everything.

And has anyone posted Canada's average seasonal temps?
So, what would be the effect if Hudson Bay did not exist? Would there be stronger pressure systems more akin to the Siberian High? So if I'm reading your posts right, Hudson Bay's effects are more felt in the summer, where northeast Canada has cooler summers than anywhere else in its latitude?
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Old 09-06-2013, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee
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I'm really into comparing temperatures so I made this map here showing the average January temperature. I was pretty surprised how warm Alaska is for its latitude, and also wonder if Hudson Bay contributes to the cold reaching further south than it otherwise would.
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Old 09-06-2013, 08:30 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Western Massachusetts
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impressive map. Is it possible you could put a scale on it?
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Old 09-06-2013, 08:37 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Western Massachusetts
45,737 posts, read 39,610,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cambium View Post

And has anyone posted Canada's average seasonal temps?
Previously posted this (January & July):


Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
this map may be a big help:

http://ftp2.cits.rncan.gc.ca/pub/geo...te/mcr4058.jpg

outdated averages (1941-1970), general pattern should be the same. Some of the contours are deviations, I think. Seems like northern Quebec has much cooler summers than Canada west of Hudson Bay
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Old 09-06-2013, 09:01 PM
 
Location: Vernon, British Columbia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by das8929 View Post
I'm really into comparing temperatures so I made this map here showing the average January temperature. I was pretty surprised how warm Alaska is for its latitude, and also wonder if Hudson Bay contributes to the cold reaching further south than it otherwise would.
Nice map! It is interesting that the warmest areas of northern Canada (the Yukon) also records the continent's coldest temperature of the year. The Yukon has been Canada's cold spot for 6 years running. List of extreme temperatures in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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