U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Weather
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: The first air frost. When?
September 7 12.07%
October 23 39.66%
November 14 24.14%
December 5 8.62%
January 4 6.90%
I live in a frost-free climate 5 8.62%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-13-2013, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Long Island/NYC
11,294 posts, read 16,393,440 times
Reputation: 6045

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cambium View Post
He did? Just like he says "NYC" but means LaGuardia I guess. Double Check the data on NYC freezes. I saw end of November including his hot spot LGA. lol

Yes its true. Are you doubting against NWS criteria or actual? Frost starts happening in the mid 30s but like you said, doesn't always result in it. Ground moisture, breezes, fog, all matter too but temps in the mid 30s will support the frost, hence the advisories that go out to protect plants.

Weather Advisory and Warning Thresholds - NWS State College

"Frost Advisory: a widespread frost, which typically occur with mainly clear skies and light winds, and low temperatures near or slightly above freezing (33F to 36F) ."
And of course LaGuardia can freeze in November, it's average first freeze is November 24th, however first freezes can and do occur in December.

Double check whatever you'd like to:
http://nowdata.rcc-acis.org/OKX/pubACIS_results

And I was under the impression that "air frost" meant the first 32F/0C temperature reading of the season, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Maybe it does, idk.

However, what if the conditions needed for a "frost" (by the definition you provided) weren't present, are you just going to assume there was a frost because the temperature reached 36F?

Last edited by nei; 09-13-2013 at 11:42 AM.. Reason: Added link.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-13-2013, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,268 posts, read 17,503,817 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunno what to put here View Post
Well, I used weatheronline to calculate the capitals with the most air frost days in Europe. I'm not sure how accurate it is.

Helsinki 139.7
Moscow 138.6
Minsk 124.5
Tallinn 123.3
Vilnius 118.4
Stockholm 113.2
Riga 107.4
Kiev 106.8

The Riga numbers look too low to me. I wanted to include Oslo, but the only station for it on weatheronline is Oslo Airport which is 35km from Oslo and at a higher elevation, so it doesn't seem representative.
I find it difficult to believe that Helsinki has more frosts than Moscow. The FMI says that the Helsinki Airport has on average 149 frosts and Kaisaniemi 128.

BTW, I can't see the pictures, the quote and other buttons anymore on this forum.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-13-2013, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Leeds, UK
22,198 posts, read 22,368,348 times
Reputation: 8560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
I find it difficult to believe that Helsinki has more frosts than Moscow. The FMI says that the Helsinki Airport has on average 149 frosts and Kaisaniemi 128.

BTW, I can't see the pictures, the quote and other buttons anymore on this forum.
I used 1982-2011 since only Berlin had data before 1982 on weatheronline, so it isn't 100% accurate. I don't think it is too surprising - Helsinki probably gets more frost in May and September, maybe even April, than Moscow, since Moscow warms up pretty fast. I don't know. SMHI and others have no recent data so it's hard to make accurate comparisons.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-13-2013, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,268 posts, read 17,503,817 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunno what to put here View Post
I used 1982-2011 since only Berlin had data before 1982 on weatheronline, so it isn't 100% accurate. I don't think it is too surprising - Helsinki probably gets more frost in May and September, maybe even April, than Moscow, since Moscow warms up pretty fast.
And Moscow is supercontinental while Helsinki is on the coast. Helsinki averages one frost in May and 0.5 in September, so it hardly plays a part. Riga has 5 months with an average low below freezing, so that 107 days below is impossible. I wouldn't take the climate robot as gospel, that's all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-13-2013, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Leeds, UK
22,198 posts, read 22,368,348 times
Reputation: 8560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
And Moscow is supercontinental while Helsinki is on the coast. Helsinki averages one frost in May and 0.5 in September, so it hardly plays a part. Riga has 5 months with an average low below freezing, so that 107 days below is impossible. I wouldn't take the climate robot as gospel, that's all.
And how representative is Helsinki Airport of Helsinki itself? Surely there are better stations. Stockholm Bromma, for example, is surrounded by houses and is located within the Stockholm municipality, but has less urban heat island than Stockholm Observatory.

I'm not taking it as a gospel, but I can't find any other stats for these places (i.e I can't be bothered). If you can find any data for those cities then be my guest, but most Met sites I encounter are are pain in the arse to navigate and may not have such stats readily available at all. Like I said, the Riga one looks iffy, but the other ones don't look unrealistic at all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-13-2013, 10:56 AM
 
1,340 posts, read 1,935,637 times
Reputation: 927
New Orleans here. If we get one it will be in January 2014.

Moving to Scotland next autumn. Can't wait for cold weather.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-13-2013, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Estonia
1,758 posts, read 1,396,910 times
Reputation: 1088
Usually in September. Even last year's warm and long fall got frosts in September and a huge snowstorm in October. This September is appalling though, a solid 7-8C warmer than average highs every single day. I woke up to 16C a few days ago while lows should be approaching 6C. Low sun angles and yellowing trees feel wrong in such warmth and I can't wait for it to end.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-13-2013, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,268 posts, read 17,503,817 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunno what to put here View Post
And how representative is Helsinki Airport of Helsinki itself? Surely there are better stations. Stockholm Bromma, for example, is surrounded by houses and is located within the Stockholm municipality, but has less urban heat island than Stockholm Observatory.
Quite good for inland areas. Kaisaniemi is better for the historical centre. Those are the two main stations.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-13-2013, 11:40 AM
 
Location: North West Northern Ireland.
20,695 posts, read 18,574,147 times
Reputation: 3107
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunno what to put here View Post
The one posted by patrix looks to be ground frost too. Only a few stations in England average over 60 air frosts per year.
Are you sure about that? Most places in Ni seem to have 40 +.
Attached Thumbnails
When do you think your first frost of the season will be?-screen-shot-2013-09-13-18.39.14.png  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-13-2013, 11:42 AM
 
Location: North West Northern Ireland.
20,695 posts, read 18,574,147 times
Reputation: 3107
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Odd how some of the UK and me are similar for first frost date. But for number of frost days/ year I have 150. Long Island with a median first frost date around Nov 10 has 96 frost days/year.
Don't go on like that when you know that in the UK we have very low diurnal ranges and that cloud can have a massive affect.

And you only have to look at the data to see that. We have loads of days with 3c maxes and 1c mins.
http://www.tutiempo.net/en/Climate/C...2010/39040.htm

115 frosts that year.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Weather
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top