When do you think your first frost of the season will be? (2014, storm)
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Surely that map can't be right. It says october for New York when people say that it is December.
What people,.. on that netweather forum?
What part of NY? Typical NYC frost is beginning of November like the map shows, NYC freeze is end of November. Suburb of NYC which borders closely is October. NYC is a Pure heat Island
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrix542
why 36f when 32f is the freezing point? (0c)
32f is a freeze. Frost happens in mid 30s with 36 being the starting point. Although it can happen at 37 & 38 too but 36 is the focus point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrix542
Average frost days per year in Europe... sadly I couldnt fidn any first frost maps
Well, I used weatheronline to calculate the capitals with the most air frost days in Europe. I'm not sure how accurate it is.
Helsinki 139.7
Moscow 138.6
Minsk 124.5
Tallinn 123.3
Vilnius 118.4
Stockholm 113.2
Riga 107.4
Kiev 106.8
The Riga numbers look too low to me. I wanted to include Oslo, but the only station for it on weatheronline is Oslo Airport which is 35km from Oslo and at a higher elevation, so it doesn't seem representative.
Hard to keep track of who got what already but I know parts of the Mid West and even northern New England already got their frosts maybe even at the end of August this year but don't quote me on that.
Here's a statement for tonight for Michigan.
330 AM EDT FRI SEP 13 2013
...FROST ADVISORY IN EFFECT FROM MIDNIGHT TONIGHT TO 9 AM EDT
SATURDAY...
THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN GRAND RAPIDS HAS ISSUED A FROST
ADVISORY...WHICH IS IN EFFECT FROM MIDNIGHT TONIGHT TO 9 AM EDT
SATURDAY.
HAZARDOUS WEATHER...
* TEMPERATURES WILL FALL INTO THE MID 30S TONIGHT.
* MOST LIKELY TIME FRAME FOR FROST DEVELOPMENT WILL BE 3 AM TO 8 AM.
IMPACTS...
* SENSITIVE VEGETATION MAY BE DAMAGED WITH THE PROPER PRECAUTIONS TAKEN.
PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...
* A FROST ADVISORY IS ISSUED WHEN FROST IS EXPECTED TO DEVELOP
DURING THE GROWING SEASON. THOSE WITH AGRICULTURAL INTERESTS IN
THE ADVISED AREA ARE ADVISED TO HARVEST OR PROTECT TENDER
VEGETATION. ALSO... POTTED PLANTS NORMALLY LEFT OUTDOORS SHOULD
BE COVERED OR BROUGHT INSIDE AWAY FROM THE COLD.
What people,.. on that netweather forum?
What part of NY? Typical NYC frost is beginning of November like the map shows, NYC freeze is end of November. Suburb of NYC which borders closely is October. NYC is a Pure heat Island
No, Infamous92 claimed December. I posted median conditions earlier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cambium
32f is a freeze. Frost happens in mid 30s with 36 being the starting point. Although it can happen at 37 & 38 too but 36 is the focus point.
I'm not sure if that's true, it depends on air circulation conditions. Anyhow, I've seen many times plants doing fine in those conditions. A night of 32°F and below, less so.
The OP and most of the thread is using "air frost" to refer to what you are calling "freezes". The last Europe map was a "ground frost" map,, though.
No, Infamous92 claimed December. I posted median conditions earlier.
I'm not sure if that's true, it depends on air circulation conditions..
Yes its true. Are you doubting against NWS criteria or actual? Frost starts happening in the mid 30s but like you said, doesn't always result in it. Ground moisture, breezes, fog, all matter too but temps in the mid 30s will support the frost, hence the advisories that go out to protect plants.
"Frost Advisory: a widespread frost, which typically occur with mainly clear skies and light winds, and low temperatures near or slightly above freezing (33°F to 36°F) ."
Surely that map can't be right. It says october for New York when people say that it is December.
It appears that way, but I zoomed in and saw yellow (late Nov) in NYC, which is accurate. The average first frost in NYC ranges from Nov 20th to Nov 24th across its 3 weather stations. Although, December first frosts are fairly common.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cambium
VERY interesting stat and kinda hard to believe. I wonder if its like you said the waters keeping NYC warmer and the cold front sliding into the south that lets Atlanta get frost earlier than NYC?
Here's another good map of Average first frost in U.S. I can see NYC and Virginia being the same. Also notice most of New England gets them in September usually.
Actually, just checked. Atlanta first 36°F temp is November 5. NYC is November 4. Hot spot LaGuardia is Nov 12.
Another odd fact is that the frost-free period/growing season in Atlanta is only a day longer than NYC's (LGA). Charlotte, NC and Richmond, VA have shorter growing seasons than all 3 of NYC's stations, Richmond's is nearly a month shorter (27 days) than LaGuardia's. Even on that map you can see parts of coastal North Carolina, with influence from the Gulf Stream, see frosts earlier than NYC. It's crazy. I want a Sabal palmetto now.
And I thought the heat island was the main culprit, but I think the water plays a bigger role, because Newark's first frost arrives 11-15 days earlier than the other NYC stations, which are more exposed to water.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei
It's showing November, there's green by NYC. I think Long Island should be November as well. NYC JFK had a median air frost date of November 17, east on Long Island November 8. I think Infamous92 is going by some recent years, but December sounds unrealistic.
I went by the recent years, the last four first frosts at LaGuardia have occurred in early/mid December. The average first frost occurs on November 24th though.
And I agree, more of Long Island should be November, instead of just Nassau and NYC. I know Islip's first frost arrives in late Oct, and I imagine the pine barrens freeze before that, but further east it gets a little milder (the hardiness zone becomes 7b again too) and probably freezes for the first time in November.
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