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Old 09-19-2013, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Niagara Falls, ON
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From Environment Canada: "Our QC team concluded their investigation. There were no errors for the examples you provided in your e-mail.. North West River, recorded a 41.7C (107F) on August 11, 1914 and Grand Forks, BC, recorded a 25C (77F) on December 4th, 1943. Please see the original (official) paper records attached."

Weather Records That Should be Erased From the Record Books-weather2.jpgWeather Records That Should be Erased From the Record Books-weather1.png
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Old 09-20-2013, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
550 posts, read 416,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morningrise View Post
I did ask about this in another thread, and someone said something about crops and how they can give high dew point readings due to evapotranspiration, or something of that nature.
That was me. It seems like the crops are a cause, but no concrete evidence to say for sure. I don't have any new info either. My post is here (#210):
The Dewpoint Thread
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Old 09-20-2013, 11:49 PM
 
Location: Vernon, British Columbia
3,018 posts, read 2,516,020 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humid Subtropical View Post
From Environment Canada: "Our QC team concluded their investigation. There were no errors for the examples you provided in your e-mail.. North West River, recorded a 41.7C (107F) on August 11, 1914 and Grand Forks, BC, recorded a 25C (77F) on December 4th, 1943. Please see the original (official) paper records attached."

Attachment 118272Attachment 118271
Thanks for digging that up! Even though it says it was that hot, I still don't believe either temperature actually happened. Humans make mistakes, and thermometers fail. The Libya record was recently overturned 100 years after the fact.

Extreme temperature records are especially problematic- more so than averages - because it only takes one mistake to leave a permanent error in the record book. Check out some of Christopher C. Burt's stuff. Weather Extremes : World Heat Record Overturned--A Personal Account | Weather Underground In other blogs he outlines why many of the records in the U.S. are unlikely.

Averages get messed up too when the instruments fail or when the site is not set up right. A couple of interesting examples from British Columbia would be 100 Mile House 6NE and Osoyoos CS. In the case of 100 Mile House, it measures a low of about 6 or 7 degrees C in July year after year, and then suddenly in 2007 it starts measuring much lower temperatures closer to 4 degrees C. Meanwhile, the nearby weather stations continue to measure the same lows as before.

Osoyoos CS is an interesting one because the daily summer highs and extremes were much higher at this weather station against the Osoyoos West station located a few hundred meters away. After being in operation for 12 or so years, the extreme summer temperatures at the Osoyoos CS station dropped down to near what the Osoyoos West station was recording. It is also interesting that Osoyoos has had various weather stations in existence since 1955 without ever having the nation's hottest annual temperature extreme. Then suddenly in 1990 the Osoyoos CS weather station arrived on the scene, and recorded Canada's hottest temperature for most of the next 12 years. Then just as suddenly this weather station stopped doing so.

I would like to heard Environment Canada's explanation on these ones.

Last edited by Glacierx; 09-21-2013 at 12:00 AM..
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Old 09-28-2013, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Vernon, British Columbia
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Wreck Cove Brook. Nova Scotia.

There is no way that July 2008 had a mean of 2.1 degrees and August 2008 a mean of 1.8 degrees.

Wabasca, Alberta, apparently had a mean temperature below -11 in May of 1976. Again, total BS.
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Old 09-28-2013, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Edmonton, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glacierx View Post
25 is the national record, head and shoulders above anyone else. You also have to remember that southern interior valleys such as Grand Forks do not get very warm in the winter. You'll find much higher extremes in Alberta than you'll find around Grand Forks. The all time December maximum in Castlegar (near Grand Forks) is less than 12 degrees. Extreme 1 in 500 year heat waves do not just strike one town and leave everyone else around them untouched.
I agree, I think such an extreme event is more likely to occur in Southern Alberta. In February 1992 I believe there was a major warmth outbreak and many locations in Southern Alberta cracked the 20C mark. Of course Environment Canada's website is such a train wreck I'm having a hard time digging up the exact records.

1992 was also of course the year of the epic August snowstorm in Southern Alberta.
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Old 09-28-2013, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Edmonton, Canada
1,674 posts, read 908,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humid Subtropical View Post
From Environment Canada: "Our QC team concluded their investigation. There were no errors for the examples you provided in your e-mail.. North West River, recorded a 41.7C (107F) on August 11, 1914 and Grand Forks, BC, recorded a 25C (77F) on December 4th, 1943. Please see the original (official) paper records attached."

Attachment 118272Attachment 118271
Nice quality control. Just dig out the old files without actually assessing the evidence. Environment Canada is a farce.
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Old 09-29-2013, 04:40 AM
 
Location: E ND & NW MN
4,731 posts, read 9,081,168 times
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In regards to the Carman MB 30c dew point....yes it is possible...

Here is an explanation after in 2011 an 88 degree dew pt was observed by the Moorhead MN AWOS.... there was rain early in the day with standing water near the site and the sensor was in an area of bean and sugar beets.

Weather Extremes : Record Dew Point Temperatures | Weather Underground

Oh and yes....I have chatted at times with some folks in weather up at the Winnipeg office and read one of their forecater's blogs.... and EC does have a very poor track record of record keeping and QC analysis.


Dan
NWS Grand Forks
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Vernon, British Columbia
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The Carman 30C reading is quite possible, but some of the other records like the Grand Forks December record simply never happened. Additionally, Environment Canada was founded in 1948, so I think a lot of the pre-EC data was not quality controlled very well. There are instances where weather stations were clearly moved, but Environment Canada does not make note of this.

Example: Big Creek, British Columbia. The weather station started out in 1893, and then stopped in 1900. Then it started up again in 1904, but the mean temperatures were now 3 degrees C cooler than before. I suspect that the pre-1904 weather station was situated at a much lower elevation than the 1904-1998 weather station. Big Creek is on the Chilcotin Plateau at about 4,000 ft, but back in the 1800s the area pioneers were just starting to discover the land so community locations were still ill-defined and subject to change.
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Old 10-18-2013, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Vernon, British Columbia
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Every month Environment Canada releases the previous month's summary. It's almost painful to look at because the number of glaring errors. From September, it claims that the temperature was -33C in Fort Saskatchewan, Alberta, even though the nearby city of Edmonton was 30 degrees warmer than that.
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Old 03-17-2014, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Vernon, British Columbia
3,018 posts, read 2,516,020 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humid Subtropical View Post
From Environment Canada: "Our QC team concluded their investigation. There were no errors for the examples you provided in your e-mail.. North West River, recorded a 41.7C (107F) on August 11, 1914 and Grand Forks, BC, recorded a 25C (77F) on December 4th, 1943. Please see the original (official) paper records attached."
I'd like to see the original (official) paper records for Kamloops (January and February 1895) because I think that the data is actually for Chilliwack some 200 km away, not Kamloops.

There is absolutely no way that Kamloops was that wet ever, let alone in 1895. Kamloops doesn't even this much precipitation in an entire year a good part of the time. Daily Data
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