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View Poll Results: How warm must it at least be?
Warm summers with no variable snowpack in winter 33 19.64%
Hot summers with no variable snowpack in winter 50 29.76%
Chilly winters and warm summers 15 8.93%
Chilly winters and hot summers 29 17.26%
Not any of the above (please explain) 41 24.40%
Voters: 168. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-27-2013, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
22,219 posts, read 21,484,935 times
Reputation: 7608

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Quote:
Originally Posted by deneb78 View Post
Well you said that your climate has high levels of insect activity in the winter and you'll obviously have enough growing degree days to grow and fully ripen citrus commercially compared with somewhere like the Scilly Isles and so yes I would say you are subtropical but clearly at the cooler end. I think citrus family of trees are one of the best subtropical indicator plants.
Yes I guess citrus evoke subtropical climates for most people. I attended a talk by an Israeli horticulturalist (about 30 years ago)who said he came to NZ to see what more he could learn about citrus, as it is the coldest growing region. An interesting point he made, was that for successful growing, leaves, fruit and ground around the plant, have to be warm to touch on all but exceptional days, during the year. A bit vague for a scientist, but something I've found to be true for here.

 
Old 04-25-2014, 09:51 PM
 
3 posts, read 5,438 times
Reputation: 16
A lot of good ideas out there. First, let me start by saying the idea of places like NYC or even Washington DC being sub-tropical is rubbish, period. Koppen was wrong! There has to be a logical boundary based real flora and fauna and it must be consistent on both the hot and cold side. So here goes........

A/Tropical=coolest season 20c+
B/Sub-Tropical=coolest season 10c to 20c OR mean annual 20c+
F/Polar=warmest season <0c
E/Sub-Polar=warmest season <10c OR mean annual <0c (EM=subpolar moor/marine= wamest <10c, EF=subpolar forest/taiga=mean<0c, ET=subpolar tundra=warmest<10c AND mean <0c) and the very rare semi-arid, subpolar climate known as steppe-tundra (parts of Mongolia)=SE

In 'my system', the dry climates do not have their own letter, B means sub-tropical not dry. I have not decided if 'season' is 1,2,or 3 months.

The difficult part is classifying the thermal zones in-between these extremes, more to follow.

Last edited by stevebb; 04-25-2014 at 10:44 PM..
 
Old 04-25-2014, 10:29 PM
 
3 posts, read 5,438 times
Reputation: 16
And now for the difficult, mid-latitude climates. Some folks call these 'temperate' climates. Well some are, and some are definitely not.

C/Moderate Winter=coolest season between 0c and 10c.
Ca=Austral=warmest 20c+ Cb=Oceanic=warmest<20c

D/Cold Winter=coolest season <0c
Da=Continental=warmest 20c+ Db=Boreal=warmest<20c

Boreal means 'northern' and Austral means 'southern'
 
Old 05-10-2014, 09:20 PM
 
19 posts, read 33,624 times
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I'd say warm to hot summers and mild winters, to me mild winters is average temperatures in the 40's-60's
 
Old 05-10-2014, 11:53 PM
 
Location: Tangerang (6°17 S)
610 posts, read 1,090,229 times
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Winters like those in oceanic climates (e.g. Sydney) and summers like in tropical climates (e.g. Miami). Snowfall are not expected every winter but may happen every few years.

An example of a city that fit this criteria is Shanghai.
 
Old 05-11-2014, 01:36 AM
 
Location: Sydney, Australia
11,642 posts, read 12,827,386 times
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Warm to hot, long summers and short mild winters.

Like Brisbane, Orlando, New Delhi and Tampa for example. Desert climates like Kuwait, Duha, Riyadh, Abu Dhabi and Dubai apply.

I wouldn't consider Sydney, Buenes Ares, Shanghai, Atlanta, Austin, Myrtle Beach and Savannah to be humid subtropical because of their cool winters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bronski View Post
Winters like those in oceanic climates (e.g. Sydney) and summers like in tropical climates (e.g. Miami). Snowfall are not expected every winter but may happen every few years.

An example of a city that fit this criteria is Shanghai.
Except, Sydney doesn't get quasi-frigid winters averaging at 8C during the day. Hell, none of our capitals go that low - even Hobart isn't as cold as Shanghai in the winter.

Oberon, which is an inland town, has temps at around 8C in the winter, like Shanghai. Although it's wetter and more oceanic.

Btw, I wouldn't say that Sydney's oceanic. Certainly not subtropical, but not oceanic.
 
Old 05-11-2014, 04:06 AM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
22,219 posts, read 21,484,935 times
Reputation: 7608
Quote:
Originally Posted by theropod View Post
Warm to hot, long summers and short mild winters.

Like Brisbane, Orlando, New Delhi and Tampa for example. Desert climates like Kuwait, Duha, Riyadh, Abu Dhabi and Dubai apply.

I wouldn't consider Sydney, Buenes Ares, Shanghai, Atlanta, Austin, Myrtle Beach and Savannah to be humid subtropical because of their cool winters.


Except, Sydney doesn't get quasi-frigid winters averaging at 8C during the day. Hell, none of our capitals go that low - even Hobart isn't as cold as Shanghai in the winter.

Oberon, which is an inland town, has temps at around 8C in the winter, like Shanghai. Although it's wetter and more oceanic.

Btw, I wouldn't say that Sydney's oceanic. Certainly not subtropical, but not oceanic.
I think the main thing to consider, is the source of the air masses.

A place isn't Oceanic by virtue of proximity to the coast, as anywhere coastal will fit the broad description of warmer winters/cooler summers

True Oceanic climates see a continuation of the same polar fronts year round, with only a lessening of frequency/intensity during the warmer months.

Subtropical climates make a complete break from that cycle during the warmer months, which manifests as either - convection and thunderstorms being the dominant form of precipitation (Humid subtropical), or the domination of semi-permanent high pressure (Mediterranean).
 
Old 05-11-2014, 06:08 AM
 
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
2,678 posts, read 5,042,221 times
Reputation: 1592
This has to be the most frequently discussed topic on this forum. Ultimately, partitioning a continuum into discrete categories will always produce a large number of borderline cases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
I think the main thing to consider, is the source of the air masses.

A place isn't Oceanic by virtue of proximity to the coast, as anywhere coastal will fit the broad description of warmer winters/cooler summers

True Oceanic climates see a continuation of the same polar fronts year round, with only a lessening of frequency/intensity during the warmer months.

Subtropical climates make a complete break from that cycle during the warmer months, which manifests as either - convection and thunderstorms being the dominant form of precipitation (Humid subtropical), or the domination of semi-permanent high pressure (Mediterranean).
That seems like a sound qualitative distinction.
 
Old 08-09-2014, 03:11 PM
 
68 posts, read 91,865 times
Reputation: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by P London View Post
To be subtropical summers must be the most dominate season or thereabouts.

Same as above really, Hot to warm summers and mild to slightly chilly winters. Snow and frost should be exceptionally rare. Precipitation pattern shouldn't matter.

Examples

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans#Climate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa,_Florida#Climate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seville#Climate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney#Climate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malta#Climate

I was going to add Birmingham, Alabama and Charleston, South Carolina but winters especially the lows are too cold to be called Subtropical.
I wouldn't draw the line there. I would draw the line in Northern California, Central Nevada Southern Utah, Northern New Mexico, Northeastern Arizona, Northern Panhandle's of Texas and Oklahoma, Central Missouri, Southern Illinois, Southern Indiana, Southern Ohio, Southern Pennsylvania/New Jersey.
 
Old 08-09-2014, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Castlederp
9,264 posts, read 7,373,061 times
Reputation: 2974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tdog79 View Post
I wouldn't draw the line there. I would draw the line in Northern California, Central Nevada Southern Utah, Northern New Mexico, Northeastern Arizona, Northern Panhandle's of Texas and Oklahoma, Central Missouri, Southern Illinois, Southern Indiana, Southern Ohio, Southern Pennsylvania/New Jersey.
IMO southern Illinois and New Jersey/Pennsylvania have too much snow to be considered subtropical. Places like NYC with a large variation between hot summers and cold winters are clearly more continental in type
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