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View Poll Results: How warm must it at least be?
Warm summers with no variable snowpack in winter 21 20.19%
Hot summers with no variable snowpack in winter 25 24.04%
Chilly winters and warm summers 11 10.58%
Chilly winters and hot summers 20 19.23%
Not any of the above (please explain) 27 25.96%
Voters: 104. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-24-2013, 07:55 AM
 
Location: USA East Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B87 View Post
Sustained warm temperatures. Tropical would have means above 18-20C in every month, whereas a subtropical climate could have winter temperatures ranging from Scilly-like to Mediterranean island.
The threshold (in most all climate classifications over the last 125 years) has been the 18 C for the coolest month. So that works.

Most subtropical climate have 8 months or more of 10 C (or higher) and are 7- 8 C in the coldest month. Scilly is likely close to both of those criteria (or maybe in both).... so it's not far off from the subtropical Cs zone.



Quote:
Originally Posted by P London View Post
To be subtropical summers must be the most dominate season or thereabouts.

Same as above really, Hot to warm summers and mild to slightly chilly winters. Snow and frost should be exceptionally rare. Precipitation pattern shouldn't matter.

Examples

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans#Climate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa,_Florida#Climate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seville#Climate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney#Climate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malta#Climate

I was going to add Birmingham, Alabama and Charleston, South Carolina but winters especially the lows are too cold to be called Subtropical.

...and I would agree. Each of those areas fit well into the subtropical zone map, some in the drier Cs and some in the more humid Cf.

Also would agree about Birmingham, but not Charleston however. The average January low in Charleston is 3.2 C/38 F...not much different than the 5 C/41 F of Seville. Charleston has a mean temp of 48 /9 C in the coldest month...and has 8 months with mean temps over 10 C. So it meets all of the criteria I would think.

Last edited by wavehunter007; 09-24-2013 at 08:14 AM..
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Old 09-24-2013, 07:59 AM
B87
 
Location: Norwich, UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhdh View Post
Gentlemen, prepare for more fighting as this is the Middle East conflict of the Weather Forum.

My (humble, personal) idea of the archetypal subtropical climate is Buenos Aires. No dry season, mildly cool winters on average, but with some freezing cold snaps or conversely warm or even hot winter days; warm to hot and humid summers.
I would suggest Las Palmas or Brisbane.
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Old 09-24-2013, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B87 View Post
Mild to hot summers, mild to warm winters.

Absolutely no snow or frost, apart from in record-breaking events.

You would have to define record breaking events.

Many subtropical climates go below 0C every year, doesn't make them not subtropical. Some have light snow every 10 years or so.
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Old 09-24-2013, 08:36 AM
 
Location: St Paul's Bay, Malta
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Sub-tropical climates should be quite warm year round, with either hot summers & mild/warm winters or mild/warm year round...

They can have the odd winter night where temperatures drop close to or even just below freezing, but they must be followed by a reasonably warm day. No snow. No average temperatures even close to freezing.

I don't think rainfall comes into it, it should be based on temperatures.

Places that get snow every winter & that have average temperatures below freezing are not sub-tropical...

A warm summer climate alone does not make a sub-tropical climate
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Old 09-24-2013, 08:38 AM
B87
 
Location: Norwich, UK
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The Scilly Isles had some snow in 1947 and got a light dusting in Jan 1987. That would be an acceptable amount of snow to qualify.
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Old 09-24-2013, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Melbourne Australia
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Brisbane is a classic subtropical climate.

To be subtropical, a place has to have mild to warm winters (no snowfall at all, highs 18-20C, lows above 5C) and warm-hot humid summers. Average lows should be higher than 18C and average highs warmer than 26C.

Basically, my minimum threshold for a subtropical climate is:

5-18C in the coldest month
18-26C in the warmest month.
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Old 09-24-2013, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingGalah! View Post
Sub-tropical climates should be quite warm year round, with either hot summers & mild/warm winters or mild/warm year round...

They can have the odd winter night where temperatures drop close to or even just below freezing, but they must be followed by a reasonably warm day. No snow. No average temperatures even close to freezing.

I don't think rainfall comes into it, it should be based on temperatures.

Places that get snow every winter & that have average temperatures below freezing are not sub-tropical...

A warm summer climate alone does not make a sub-tropical climate

Agreed. But a climate that averages 60F/40F in January and goes below 0C 15 times a year can qualify as a subtropical climate. When you can pick fresh oranges and grapefruits from your backyard tree that is in the ground with no protection, you live in a subtropical climate.

Between 1980 and 2013 Rome Italy has gone below 32F over 700 times. Nice has gone 32 or below 66 times since 1980. Barcelona has gone to 32F and below 179 times since 1980. If it happens that often they ain't record breaking events.

On the subtropical gardening and citrus forum, the folks from places like Nice and Rome have no trouble growing beautiful citrus trees loaded with fruit in their backyards. The people from the UK, not so much. And there are forum members on there from the UK, and they lament not being able to grow what the folks in Charleston, Rome, Nice, etc. can grow because of their much warmer overall average temps and higher sunshine.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Overcast View Post
Brisbane is a classic subtropical climate.

To be subtropical, a place has to have mild to warm winters (no snowfall at all, highs 18-20C, lows above 5C) and warm-hot humid summers. Average lows should be higher than 18C and average highs warmer than 26C.

Basically, my minimum threshold for a subtropical climate is:

5-18C in the coldest month
18-26C in the warmest month.

That knocks out all of the UK and places along the West Coast of the US like San Francisco. Scilly comes close, but seems way too cool in summer. To me, you at least have to feel somewhat warm on the average winter day in a subtropical climate, or at least not really chilled. I doubt you can feel any warmth at all in winter in places that have average highs in the 40'sF, even if the nights only go down to 40F.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:17 AM
 
Location: London, UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehunter007 View Post


...and I would agree. Each of those areas fit well into the subtropical zone map, some in the drier Cs and some in the more humid Cf.

Also would agree about Birmingham, but not Charleston however. The average January low in Charleston is 3.2 C/38 F...not much different than the 5 C/41 F of Seville. Charleston has a mean temp of 48 /9 C in the coldest month...and has 8 months with mean temps over 10 C. So it meets all of the criteria I would think.
Then I agree ..I'm not good at thinking about the mean temperatures.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:24 AM
 
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Snow is not really in the equation. Subtropical climates have warm to hot summers (some are deserts [blistering hot summers] and some are maritime subtropical [humid but not as hot as deserts in summer], and some are in between [hot summer, pleasantly warm winters with little or no frost]. Frost, not snow, is the important feature. Subtropical areas range from no frost ever to a rare light frost in a typical year. Most importantly, there is some degree of temperature variation between the time of high sun and low sun, however minor. That's what delineates 'subtopical" from "tropical".
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