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They aren't really 'slightly cooler' though. A 5-7C difference is pretty big.
Have to agree. Maybe not in the USA but in the UK if we were to take 5c off our average highs we would have subarctic climates but if we were to add we'd have something like Barcelona.
DC is subtropical dude. It is overall very similar to shanghai in china. If DC is continental, then so is shanghai, which distorts the basic meaning of subtropical climates.
Technically, if the average mean temperature exceeds 32 F during the coldest month, and 80 F during the hottest month, then the climate is considered subtropical. This definition is universal for identifying subtropical regions.
In my area, the average mean temperature in January 29 F, and in July, it's 77 F, clearly demarcating my town as a continental climate. We often get highs below freezing. However, lows rarely drop below 0 F. I feel such a rare event will occur this year . We are long overdue for a proper, brutal, winter.
Have to agree. I would not consider Washington DC to have a cold winter climate at all, it is very often considerably warmer than here and I do not even consider myself to have cold winters.
For the 83rd time the Met Office stats are for Lee-On-The-Solent, several miles away from Portsmouth in an area which is completely un-representative of Portsmouth! It is a bit like using the Heathrow data for central London...
The data on Wikipedia is accurate, it is from the now closed Met Office weather station in Southsea, Portsmouth. The data isn't publically available but I have access to the Met Ofice database & I can assure you they are the correct figures.
Portsmouth is a city, on an island & an extremely built up city at that. It is the most densely populated place in the UK, yes even more so than central London, & the twelfth most densely populated place in Europe. It is this that makes it warmer than Lee-On-The-Solent due to the 'urban warming', the 'Solent' weather station may be near to the water, but as is typical of many UK weather stations it is situated at an airbase, so is an un-natural open expanse of land & as such records temperatures lower than in Portsmouth itself.
Those maps on the Met Office site just use a general scale as to what the temperatures are between, they are not as accurate as using the actual data from a weather station itself, they even show Shanklin & Bognor Regis as having less sunshine than they actually receive too, when the figures from the respective weather stations are even posted on the Met Office website!
I really don't know why you find it so hard to understand how Portsmouth is warmer than 'Solent'
Then I say pure urban heat island numbers. I'm sure downtown Philly is at least 5F warmer at night than our airport maybe even more. But we don't use downtown numbers here, except for Central Park. Downtown Norfolk is most certainly warmer than that airport. And I'll bet the difference is enough to still make Norfolk slightly warmer than Portsmouth overall in winter.
Not impossible as it is fact, unlike the snow covered 'mountain' behind your house
What does this have to do with me pointing out the difference between the Solent weather station data & Portsmouth??
Because my original post showed that Norfolk was slightly warmer overall than the Met Office data. Then B87 came back with the Wiki numbers.
Put it this way, Norfolk airport is warmer in winter overall than all the places surrounding the UHI penisula that Portsmouth is sitting on. Downtown Norfolk, being warmer than their airport, is probably slightly warmer overall than Portsmouth.
You went on and on about how sunshine figures were not accurate and UK was actually sunnier using the 120W standard. I posted the links and articles that showed your CS machines overestimated sunshine. The electronic data is lower. Show me the links to back up your constant claims about UK sunshine. If you are right, I'll accept it. Until then, I will assume the UK is actually cloudier than their CS hours show. London is actually cloudier using the 120W standard.
You went on and on about how sunshine figures were not accurate and UK was actually sunnier using the 120W standard. I posted the links and articles that showed your CS machines overestimated sunshine. The electronic data is lower. Show me the links to back up your constant claims about UK sunshine. If you are right, I'll accept it. Until then, I will assume the UK is actually cloudier than their CS hours show. London is actually cloudier using the 120W standard.
I assumed they adjusted up because every other country that has switched to an electronic system has shown an increase (and I have said this many times before). Also the 100W sensor that I posted about before recorded 2600 hrs of sun, when the actual value was only 1612 or so. Somehow Berlin and Warsaw are now much sunnier than London, when they were cloudier before.
What about these other examples of tweaking temperatures and other stats that everyone seems to accuse me of?
Solent is not in the UHI and has warmer winters than Norfolk Airport (5.85C vs 5.75C)
40.8 +43.0 +44.5 = 42.76. Now round to the nearest tenth and you have 42.8F.
Solent is 8.4C average high, and 3.3C avg low. The mean temp is 5.9C. Convert 5.9C to F and you get 42.62F. Round 42.62F to 42.6F. 42.8F is higher than 42.6F.
Then I say pure urban heat island numbers. I'm sure downtown Philly is at least 5F warmer at night than our airport maybe even more. But we don't use downtown numbers here, except for Central Park. Downtown Norfolk is most certainly warmer than that airport. And I'll bet the difference is enough to still make Norfolk slightly warmer than Portsmouth overall in winter.
Well urban heat island or not, those are the average temperatures from the Southsea weather station, doesn't really matter how or why it is warmer... We don't use city weather stations genterally in the UK either, but the Southsea weather station's location was was right at the bottom of Portsea Island in a very open area (the far west of Southsea common) head slightly inland & the temperatures get even warmer, on average the minimums in my own garden (approx 1mile inland) are 1.2C higher than those from the Southsea weather station. I have no doubt that downtown Norfolk would be warmer than the airport, but there are no figures for there so you cannot say with any confidence that it would be warmer in winter than Portsmouth. Can they grow Phoenix canariensis in downtown Norfolk?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons
Because my original post showed that Norfolk was slightly warmer overall than the Met Office data. Then B87 came back with the Wiki numbers.
Put it this way, Norfolk airport is warmer in winter overall than all the places surrounding the UHI penisula that Portsmouth is sitting on. Downtown Norfolk, being warmer than their airport, is probably slightly warmer overall than Portsmouth.
Well the average highs in winter are warmer but the average lows are lower even than Lee-On-The-Solent...
I assumed they adjusted up because every other country that has switched to an electronic system has shown an increase (and I have said this many times before). Also the 100W sensor that I posted about before recorded 2600 hrs of sun, when the actual value was only 1612 or so. Somehow Berlin and Warsaw are now much sunnier than London, when they were cloudier before.
What about these other examples of tweaking temperatures and other stats that everyone seems to accuse me of?
Maybe tweaking was the wrong word. I think you are good at cherry picking to suit an agenda.
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. We are long overdue for a proper, brutal, winter.
It is a bit like using the Heathrow data for central London...
