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And it's often nowhere near -20F! Aren't there also some in South America?
Here's the problem. These people that base climates only or mostly on the extreme lows, I think, define subtropical as the same climate as tropical except cooler. That's not always the case
Here's the problem. These people that base climates only or mostly on the extreme lows, I think, define subtropical as the same climate as tropical except cooler. That's not always the case
I agree. The Gulf Coast certainly has some qualities of tropical climates.
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Your constant diatribes about "proper" subtropical climates are stupid. The only other country that has inland subtropical climates like the United States is China. And China certainly looks dead at points fairly far south. Raleigh looks fairly green. I suggest you stop trying to paint the United States as some hyper-continental wasteland and learn a thing or two about climate. It would be less far off to say the state of North Carolina was tropical than to say it was Continental. So by your logic, Chicago must be subarctic? And northern Minnesota must be arctic! Canada must be ice cap, on a par with Antarctica. The Chinese Subtropics have far lower average temps and look dead in many ways too. Did you know a place in China holds the record for the lowest latitude freeze?! And as I've said before: hardiness zones change. They are very loose guidelines and focus on extremes. Extremes are called extremes for a reason. They are rare. The inland subtropics of the USA look no more dead than the inland subtropics of China. I think this false categorization of the USA as having some sort of Russian-style, frigid climatic make up is a ridiculous way of bashing the country. It's better if the U.S. Is viewed as cold and dark rather than warm and colorful. The US is far more the latter. It's largest climate zone isn't even continental, and it's considered by climatologists to be a generally warm to hot-climate country.
Not true. Beijing has more native broadleaf evergreen vegetation than Philadelphia in winter. Further south in China same latitude for latitude. China has a much broader palette of broadleaf evergreens than the US. Botanists have theorized that when the last ice age wiped out the broadleaf evergreens in the eastern US, they did not return to their former range due to the seed block of the desert SW and the Gulf of Mexico. They couldn't return back from the tropics to their former range. China does not have that seed block as Vietnam is directly connected to China without desert or water blocking northern movement.
When you go to the south and see the broadleaf evergreens, many are from China. In Mobile, AL they love their Southern Indica Azealas. Well, they are evergreen and they are China and Japan natives not US. Same for Satsumas which they love down south. There is no native citrus to the US, China had it all lol.
Funny thing is the native southern US azeala is deciduous. What do you expect given the winter extremes that can happen. Now why would China have broadleaf evergreen azealas and the US have deciduous as natives? Oh and another thing they love in the south are Camellias. Again a native of Japan and China that are broadleaf evergreen. The number of native broadleaf evergreens in the US South does not come close to what China has latitude for latitude. Maybe it is because of the seed block theory, or maybe because the extremes which hit the US like Mobile AL going down to 3F in 1985.
I have no idea why some people are so obsessed about winter extremes in the US, and make it out to be like it's a normal winter temperature . Cfa zones are extremely hard to compare, there's only two. So, nobody can say if the US is warm for its latitude, or China is cold for its latitude with a sample size of 2. If a place has a record low of -20F like 30 years ago, some people fixate on that and say "ha! Not subtropical!"Give me a break it's also usually the same people who say Miami isn't tropical
I'm not basing the climate on extremes. I keep saying the averages though are misleading because unlike most of the planet, eastern NA has the most winter variability and the highest standard deviation of temps on a daily basis. Milan Italy has an avg Jan low of 30F and is zone 9a. Mobile Al has an avg Jan low of 40F and is zone 8b. That says something about what happens every winter, and how cold it can get relative to average. That is the point that gets missing in climate classifications.
Philadelphia is zone 7b (7F on avg for winter min) and our avg low is 25F. Almost every winter in the eastern US can expect a deviation of around 20F. And it is due to all the teleconnections that impact North America. You would expect that a positive AO and a positive NAO would result in a mild winter for the eastern US but you would be wrong. One of the coldest Feb's on record was due to the PNA. When you have 6 teleconnections all you need is one to go haywire and you have an extreme event. I don't think any other continent has the amount of teleconnections and the mountain configuration we do. Hence the extremes.
Not true. Beijing has more native broadleaf evergreen vegetation than Philadelphia in winter. Further south in China same latitude for latitude. China has a much broader palette of broadleaf evergreens than the US. Botanists have theorized that when the last ice age wiped out the broadleaf evergreens in the eastern US, they did not return to their former range due to the seed block of the desert SW and the Gulf of Mexico. They couldn't return back from the tropics to their former range. China does not have that seed block as Vietnam is directly connected to China without desert or water blocking northern movement.
Prove it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons
When you go to the south and see the broadleaf evergreens, many are from China. In Mobile, AL they love their Southern Indica Azealas. Well, they are evergreen and they are China and Japan natives not US. Same for Satsumas which they love down south. There is no native citrus to the US, China had it all lol.
Funny thing is the native southern US azeala is deciduous. What do you expect given the winter extremes that can happen. Now why would China have broadleaf evergreen azealas and the US have deciduous as natives? Oh and another thing they love in the south are Camellias. Again a native of Japan and China that are broadleaf evergreen. The number of native broadleaf evergreens in the US South does not come close to what China has latitude for latitude. Maybe it is because of the seed block theory, or maybe because the extremes which hit the US like Mobile AL going down to 3F in 1985.
Lots of native US broadleaf evergreens growing in the South. Live oaks dripping with spanish moss ring a bell? How about magnolia trees? Bay trees? Hollies?
There are also lots of other lesser known broadleaf evergreens growing abundantly in the South, like the Limestone Prickly Ash, Ebony trees, Anacuas, Wax myrtles, Southern US blueberries, etc. China is just where citrus happened to originate; it doesn't signify anything special in terms of winter stability. In fact, the citrus species that come from China are actually quite cold hardy: Cold-hardy citrus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Just as citrus originated in China, blueberries, strawberries, and tomatoes originated in North America. There are deciduous azaleas living in China as well. What is your point with these claims?
But I do want to read up more on the seed-block idea. Where did you see that? Can you tell me by any chance?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons
I'm not basing the climate on extremes. I keep saying the averages though are misleading because unlike most of the planet, eastern NA has the most winter variability and the highest standard deviation of temps on a daily basis. Milan Italy has an avg Jan low of 30F and is zone 9a. Mobile Al has an avg Jan low of 40F and is zone 8b. That says something about what happens every winter, and how cold it can get relative to average. That is the point that gets missing in climate classifications.
Philadelphia is zone 7b (7F on avg for winter min) and our avg low is 25F. Almost every winter in the eastern US can expect a deviation of around 20F. And it is due to all the teleconnections that impact North America. You would expect that a positive AO and a positive NAO would result in a mild winter for the eastern US but you would be wrong. One of the coldest Feb's on record was due to the PNA. When you have 6 teleconnections all you need is one to go haywire and you have an extreme event. I don't think any other continent has the amount of teleconnections and the mountain configuration we do. Hence the extremes.
Actually, Mobile has been functioning more and more as a zone 9B climate, going on 10A. The hardiness zone maps were skewed big time.
That poster just ignores hard cold climate data facts and spits out whatever he thinks will make people buy into his "subtropical paradise" bs. The airport is borderline 8b/9a (and is way out west of the city in a rural colder area), while the downtown airport and city proper over the last 30 years is definitely 9a. I drove out to the airport a number of times this past February and it is definitely not in any UHI at all and is much further from the influence of Mobile Bay. Mobile regional airport is a tiny little airport out in the woods lol.
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. Cfa zones are extremely hard to compare, there's only two. So, nobody can say if the US is warm for its latitude, or China is cold for its latitude with a sample size of 2. If a place has a record low of -20F like 30 years ago, some people fixate on that and say "ha! Not subtropical!"Give me a break 
it's also usually the same people who say Miami isn't tropical 
