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Ulaanbaatar was the first thing that came to mind before I opened this thread. I knew it was cold -- didn't realize it was coldest! I came close to going there for a year of volunteering & teaching.
I don't think summer temperatures (and thus annual averages) are relevant.
When we say a place is cold, we usually only talk about its winter.
I guess. But there are places in the world that, while not bitterly cold in the winter (hovering around +5C), also rarely go above 20C in the summer. So sure, you're not freezing in the winter, but you also don't really get much real warmth at all during the year, even in summer.
I don't think summer temperatures (and thus annual averages) are relevant.
When we say a place is cold, we usually only talk about its winter.
Well, I actually think that the annual averages are the most relevant value when deciding which place is colder or hotter, while considering only winter averages is misleading. Otherwise I should conclude that Montreal is colder than Southern Greenland or the Antarctic Peninsula, despite the fact that in these two areas trees can't grow and snowfalls are seen in midsummer. Or that the Po plain in Northern Italy is colder than Iceland. Many other examples could be made.
That's also the same reason why I believe that it is incorrect to look only at the low (or high) temperatures, or the absolute maximums or minimums that are even more misleading.
It's obviously licit to wonder which place is colder in winter, but it must be specified. Otherwise I believe it should be assumed that the term is referred to the annual average.
Well, I actually think that the annual averages are the most relevant value when deciding which place is colder or hotter, while considering only winter averages is misleading. Otherwise I should conclude that Montreal is colder than Southern Greenland or the Antarctic Peninsula, despite the fact that in these two areas trees can't grow and snowfalls are seen in midsummer. Or that the Po plain in Northern Italy is colder than Iceland. Many other examples could be made.
That's also the same reason why I believe that it is incorrect to look only at the low (or high) temperatures, or the absolute maximums or minimums that are even more misleading.
It's obviously licit to wonder which place is colder in winter, but it must be specified. Otherwise I believe it should be assumed that the term is referred to the annual average.
Well, I live in a place with four distinct seasons, so I really care about if the winter is cold or not. In such places, what plants can grow is pretty much determined by winter temperatures, because the summers are more or less the same.
Seattle has a lower annual mean than Beijing, but it does not make sense to say Seattle is colder than Beijing. In every winter, the lakes and rivers in Beijing are solid frozen and people skate there.
Maybe people from different places have different interpretations.
Well, I live in a place with four distinct seasons, so I really care about if the winter is cold or not. In such places, what plants can grow is pretty much determined by winter temperatures, because the summers are more or less the same.
Seattle has a lower annual mean than Beijing, but it does not make sense to say Seattle is colder than Beijing. In every winter, the lakes and rivers in Beijing are solid frozen and people skate there.
Yet again, the winter is only one season. Seattle is colder than Beijing overall because, though being milder in winter, it is distinctly cooler in all the other seasons. That also means that Seattle is colder than Beijing in more than half of the year. But many people choose to focus only on winters (just like many people focus only on summers to determine which place is hotter) and I don't understand why.
Well, I actually think that the annual averages are the most relevant value when deciding which place is colder or hotter, while considering only winter averages is misleading. Otherwise I should conclude that Montreal is colder than Southern Greenland or the Antarctic Peninsula, despite the fact that in these two areas trees can't grow and snowfalls are seen in midsummer.
Goes both ways. Moscow has a colder mean temp than Oslo or Stockholm, but is warmer in summer
If someone is afraid of "cold", he'll definitely pick Seattle over Beijing to live in.
If someone is afraid of "hot", he'll definitely pick Seattle over Beijing to live in.
Two different questions.
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