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When was the last time a city in Central Europe went 35F below average? China? That happened this winter in the central US. Places on the Gulf Coast went 25F below average.
Continental spots go 35°F below average rather regularly. Being far enough from the moderating influence of the sea is the only prerequisite for attaining such anomalies. After all, places like Yakima or Boise have record lows 45-50°F below average and are located west of the Rockies.
The atypical feature of Midwestern and US East Coast climates is that temps constantly go back and forth throughout the winter and that large anomalies are common place (which translates into hardiness zones). The magnitude of record cold anomalies seems more or less in line with other continental places.
Continental spots go 35°F below average rather regularly. Being far enough from the moderating influence of the sea is the only prerequisite for attaining such anomalies. After all, places like Yakima or Boise have record lows 45-50°F below average and are located west of the Rockies.
The atypical feature of Midwestern and US East Coast climates is that temps constantly go back and forth throughout the winter and that large anomalies are common place (which translates into hardiness zones). The magnitude of record cold anomalies seems more or less in line with other continental places.
They get that cold because our oceanic influenced climate occupies a much smaller coastal strip compared to Europe. St. Louis, MO record low is 46F below the average low, and they are east of the Rockies.
When you look at the climate of Xian in the other thread, I couldn't help but notice the average low being 25F, same as here, yet the record low is 14F warmer than here. And we are only 50 miles from the Atlantic and at sea level. Xian is at 1,300 in elevation. Little Rock, AR is at the same latitude as Xian, but is at only 275' above sea level. Yet Little Rock record low is colder than Xian by 15F.
I would imagine that places in Central Europe going that far below normal would be very rare, whereas here it happens every 20 years or less. As far as record low temps, does anywhere in Central Europe come close to places here in the Upper Midwest? No matter how you slice it I'm pretty sure that North America has the most extreme anomalies on an extreme record basis and on a regular basis. I have to say it is the one thing I detest about N. American climates.
Last edited by tom77falcons; 02-10-2014 at 07:55 PM..
By comparison, the coldest this winter at London Heathrow has been -1°C or (30°F)..
The set-up this winter ensured that would happen.
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Originally Posted by tom77falcons
Actually, you are slightly exaggerating. For Pensacola, FL (basically the same as Mobile) they average 9 days a year (Dec, Jan, and Feb) with a max temp below 50F. That represents 10% of winter days. So saying "98%" is factually incorrect. It is 90%. Also, this winter saw ice days in the deep South. New Orleans lowest high temp in January was 35F, but many cities on the Gulf Coast and SE Coast had an ice day this year.
There is a big "but" in all of this though. The high winter std deviation of temps east of the Rockies. Pensacola has had a year with 24 days below 50F, and a year with 2 days below 50F. So in reality the % of days over 50F (or lukewarm) varies from 98% to 73%.
I'd much rather have the stability of winter temps they have in Europe or Asia. Shanghai is a lot colder for average temps in winter than Charleston, SC, yet it has a higher average winter extreme min and is in a higher growing zone. Same for Barcelona in Europe. Commercial citrus production takes place in Spain at the latitude of Chicago. Same for Italy. Meanwhile over here it is pushed to the very bottom of Texas and far south into Central FL. In fact, the 1980's pushed it even further south into FL. Most of Italy, Spain and Greece are zone 9 (extreme winter min of 20-30F), with swaths of zone 10 (above 30F). Zone 10 here is confined to S. California, S. Arizona, extreme S. Texas and extreme S. Florida. Orlando FL is zone 9b along with all of coastal Italy, France and Spain. I would bet that if you added up zone 10 in Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal it would easily exceed zone 10 in the US.
The last twenty years made me think the 1980's were behind us, wouldn't return for a long time, and that the South was getting much better winters. This winter brought it all back to reality how lousy the winter climate is in the US east of the Rockies. For every mild winter we have in the US, it seems Europe and Asia get two or three times as many. It seems impossible for them to get the anomolies we have to deal with.
When was the last time a city in Central Europe went 35F below average? China? That happened this winter in the central US. Places on the Gulf Coast went 25F below average.
What cities on the Gulf and South Atlantic coasts had an ice day? Even in this cold winter with the snowstorms, temps stayed warm enough to ensure the survival of crops and plants.
I consider the US South pretty stable during the winter, good enough to plant and grow almost anything, including tropicals. The US South's winters are like subtropical Australia(Brisbane), only more prone to cold due to the large continental landmass of North America. Many areas of the US South have practically a 365 day growing season, and commercial citrus production is already occurring there as well. In addition to citrus, the US South can support commercial cotton, sugarcane, rice, and even banana plantations (http://southeastfarmpress.com/orchar...ana-industry); many of these things are unable to be grown to the fullest in the European Med climates as they lack the "tropical winter days" the South gets on a regular basis. Besides, Europe is an outlier, nowhere else in the world has such mild winters at their latitude. Zone 10 in the continental US, outside of South Arizona and California, actually exists in South Texas(and much of the state coastline) the Louisiana Delta, and Central and Southern Florida. The rest of the South that is in close proximity to the Gulf or Atlantic is in zone 9b. That is sufficient enough for a high quality subtropical environment. Shanghai is in the same growing zone as Charleston, and they are at about the same latitude; nothing unusual there. The subtropical climates in East Asia are stable in a cold way; with highs in many areas never getting out of the 40s/50s many days (Tokyo, Shanghai, Osaka, etc). The US South is WAYYY warmer than that.
This is just one year out of 20 that was unusually cold; not enough to cancel out the overall recovery of the subtropical nature of the South. Do you want to know how close to being tropical the US South is? It is warm enough to support the growth of huge swamps draped with thick spanish moss, with tropical trees like mahogany and logwood being grown. China is already cold, I wouldn't want them to deviate too much. Europe is an outlier, nowhere else in the world is as warm as they are at their latitude.
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Originally Posted by flamingGalah!
If someone had a thermometer a couple of hundred years ago in New Orleans how do you know it wouldn't have recorded a colder temperature?!? lol... And such old temperature records are not valid, even the UK Met Office does not use any such data as it is completely flawed.
Which goes back to the question, how far back should record lows go?? One hundred years, two hundred, a thousand? The ice age??
And your comments about snowy London are stereotypical nonsense, yes winters may have been a bit colder back then, but the decpiction of Dickensian London & snowy Christmas cards are a fantasy...
Whatever. No matter how you spin it, London was colder than New Orleans ever was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons
Anyone that lives in the eastern part of the US knows that there is no such thing as a "normal" winter. It is, and always has been, "normal" for us to get wild temperature swings all winter.
No, majority of winters in the US East of the Rockies are normal. Its not the one or the other extreme you say it is; the media may sensationalize these things, but in reality, they are not all that drastic.
But how often do those anomalies happen compared to here?
If the record low - average low difference is similar, I'd think the anomalies would be happen at a similar rate. Otherwise, the distribution would be different, resulting in a greater or smaller average - record low. Anyhow Jan 2013 here (ignoring 2014 since it was extreme in its variablilty):
If anything Central Asia / European Russia is more prone to monthly variabilty than here, though latitude is a factor. (Not for Almaty, which is about the same as New England)
What cities on the Gulf and South Atlantic coasts had an ice day? Even in this cold winter with the snowstorms, temps stayed warm enough to ensure the survival of crops and plants.
This is just one year out of 20 that was unusually cold; not enough to cancel out the overall recovery of the subtropical nature of the South. Do you want to know how close to being tropical the US South is? It is warm enough to support the growth of huge swamps draped with thick spanish moss, with tropical trees like mahogany and logwood being grown. China is already cold, I wouldn't want them to deviate too much. Europe is an outlier, nowhere else in the world is as warm as they are at their latitude.
No, majority of winters in the US East of the Rockies are normal. Its not the one or the other extreme you say it is; the media may sensationalize these things, but in reality, they are not all that drastic.
Dude for ****s sake this was in Pensacola last month:
Central Florida is close to being tropical, most of the south is not.
Do you want to know how close to being tropical the US South is? It is warm enough to support the growth of huge swamps draped with thick spanish moss, with tropical trees like mahogany and logwood being grown.
Where do they grow mahogany in the southern US besides Florida? Isn't a truly tropical tree like that restricted from going anywhere there could be a freeze?
Let's face it... the US South can get very cold once in a while... This past winter, the January average in Torshavn, Faroe Islands at 62°N was warmer than in Atlanta, GA and Torshavn's record low for the month 0°C (32°F) was slightly warmer than Daytona Beach, FL at -1°C (30°F).
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