Which U.S. area has a more Tropical Climate? (averages, global warming, city)

[wavehunter007]

Originally Posted by Asagi

Coastal Hawaii is zone 13, while Miami Beach is borderline zone 11.

Just a side note about zones….and record temps….(although I’m not a big fan of garden zone maps). I’ve spent a lot of time studying the climate of Miami – not only because I’ve lived there and visit there frequently, but just that fact that Miami is the warmest major city in the USA in winter:

When Miami reports a temp in the middle/upper 30’s every few years – those readings come from the International Airport well inland. The City of Miami and especially the coastal areas almost NEVER see a temp even 45 F. If you look at the NWS data for Miami International (where the main NWS weather site is) and the NWS reporting station in Miami Beach on the coast…you can see there is a difference between them: Miami averages 0.1 days with frost annually….while Miami Beach averages 0.0 days…the normal low in the coldest month at Miami International is 59.8 F….the normal low at Miami Beach is 62.7 (3 F warmer). The difference doesn’t seem like much between 0 and 0.1, but it shows that there is clearly a difference between coastal Miami and areas well inland.

Zone 11 has annual extreme lows of 30 to 40 F…..zone 12 has annual extreme lows of 40 to 50 F. So while you can use the one night every few years to say that Miami International is in zone 11…coastal Dade and Broward County are easily zone 12.

[Asagi]

Originally Posted by wavehunter007

Just a side note about zones….and record temps….(although I’m not a big fan of garden zone maps). I’ve spent a lot of time studying the climate of Miami – not only because I’ve lived there and visit there frequently, but just that fact that Miami is the warmest major city in the USA in winter:

When Miami reports a temp in the middle/upper 30’s every few years – those readings come from the International Airport well inland. The City of Miami and especially the coastal areas almost NEVER see a temp even 45 F. If you look at the NWS data for Miami International (where the main NWS weather site is) and the NWS reporting station in Miami Beach on the coast…you can see there is a difference between them: Miami averages 0.1 days with frost annually….while Miami Beach averages 0.0 days…the normal low in the coldest month at Miami International is 59.8 F….the normal low at Miami Beach is 62.7 (3 F warmer). The difference doesn’t seem like much between 0 and 0.1, but it shows that there is clearly a difference between coastal Miami and areas well inland.

Zone 11 has annual extreme lows of 30 to 40 F…..zone 12 has annual extreme lows of 40 to 50 F. So while you can use the one night every few years to say that Miami International is in zone 11…coastal Dade and Broward County are easily zone 12.

Zone 11 has average annual lows of 40 to 50*F and Zone 12 has annual average annual lows of 50 to 60*F. While Miami Beach could be considered zone 11 short term, I wonder how it plays out longterm. Hence the borderline zone 11, and not the solid zone 11 of the Keys.

Here is a pretty accurate and detailed map of Florida I found: http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/p...3/untitled.gif

[canefandynasty]

Originally Posted by wavehunter007

Just a side note about zones….and record temps….(although I’m not a big fan of garden zone maps). I’ve spent a lot of time studying the climate of Miami – not only because I’ve lived there and visit there frequently, but just that fact that Miami is the warmest major city in the USA in winter:

When Miami reports a temp in the middle/upper 30’s every few years – those readings come from the International Airport well inland. The City of Miami and especially the coastal areas almost NEVER see a temp even 45 F. If you look at the NWS data for Miami International (where the main NWS weather site is) and the NWS reporting station in Miami Beach on the coast…you can see there is a difference between them: Miami averages 0.1 days with frost annually….while Miami Beach averages 0.0 days…the normal low in the coldest month at Miami International is 59.8 F….the normal low at Miami Beach is 62.7 (3 F warmer). The difference doesn’t seem like much between 0 and 0.1, but it shows that there is clearly a difference between coastal Miami and areas well inland.

Zone 11 has annual extreme lows of 30 to 40 F…..zone 12 has annual extreme lows of 40 to 50 F. So while you can use the one night every few years to say that Miami International is in zone 11…coastal Dade and Broward County are easily zone 12.

weather.com records average monthly temp for Miami using Miami Beach data.
If you look at Hialeahs average monthly temp, it's different. Most of Miami city limits is on the coast and I agree should be using Miami Beach data. Miami International is too far inland to be used as an accurate data. But, on the flip side wunderground uses Miami International for Miami. Actually, most data use Miami Int. to describe Miami's climate which is inaccurate.

[canefandynasty]

Also, someone just slightly changed Miami's average temp of wikipedia Miami page. A noticeable difference in the average yearly high temp. Someone also had Miami's climate classification as "humid subtropical to tropical monsoon" under the Climate of Miami page on wikipedia for a short time, till someone corrected it. Anyone noticing these things?

[wavehunter007]

Originally Posted by canefandynasty

Also, someone just slightly changed Miami's average temp of wikipedia Miami page. A noticeable difference in the average yearly high temp. Someone also had Miami's climate classification as "humid subtropical to tropical monsoon" under the Climate of Miami page on wikipedia for a short time, till someone corrected it. Anyone noticing these things?

Although wikipedia is a great source, and a good reference for general city information…there is often many mistakes in the climate information. This is a good example. Miami is NOT a Tropical Monsoon climate (Am)…rather a tropical Savannah climate (Aw). In fact, if you look at the wikipedia page for Ft. Lauderdale (only 26 miles north) they have it listed as Tropical Rainforest climate (Af). Of course, there are no tropical rainforests per say in FTL.

I would stick with NOAA – NWS for data.

[Snowbird100]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

South Florida is sub-tropical with a winter dry season. Cooler low temperatures are found further away from the large metro areas in the state due to the urban heat island.

Southeast Florida (West Palm Beach and South) and the Florida Keys is tropical.
Southwest Florida (Fort Myers and South) is also tropical.

[Snowbird100]

Originally Posted by Zone13

I think it's like this..
American Samoa, Guam, U.S. Virgin Islands
Hawaii
Florida Keys
Coastal South Florida
Coastal Central Florida, Coastal Deep South Texas, Inland South Florida
South Texas Coast up to Galveston, Central Florida, Parts of Deep Southern Coastal North Florida
South Central Texas, Northern Florida Coast including Panhandle, Extreme southern coast of Georgia, most of southern coastal Louisiana, Gulf Coast of Mississippi and Alabama
Central and East Texas, Southern Half of Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama, Inland North Florida, Southeastern Georgia, and a very small zone hugging the coast of Georgia and the Carolinas

I think you altered Koppen's classification of tropical climate.

Tropical Florida includes:
- Southeast Florida: Around West Palm Beach all the way to the Florida Keys (Port St Lucie just missed it by a fraction of a degree to qualify as tropical, I think her Jan average is shy of 64.4, it might be something like 64 or 63.8 or something like that).
- Southwest Florida: Fort Myers and South (Fort Myers is borderline as Koppen classified it as tropical while the US NAOO classified it as subtropical).
- Any other area is Florida is subtropical.

Hawaii is tropical of course.

I think Brownsville is not tropical as it's Jan average is colder than 18C (64.4F), hence disqualified as tropical.

Any other states are NOT tropical: Georgia, Louisiana, Alabana, N/S Carolinas are subtropical.

[deneb78]

Originally Posted by Snowbird100

I think you altered Koppen's classification of tropical climate.

Tropical Florida includes:
- Southeast Florida: Around West Palm Beach all the way to the Florida Keys (Port St Lucie just missed it by a fraction of a degree to qualify as tropical, I think her Jan average is shy of 64.4, it might be something like 64 or 63.8 or something like that).
- Southwest Florida: Fort Myers and South (Fort Myers is borderline as Koppen classified it as tropical while the US NAOO classified it as subtropical).
- Any other area is Florida is subtropical.

Hawaii is tropical of course.

I think Brownsville is not tropical as it's Jan average is colder than 18C (64.4F), hence disqualified as tropical.

Any other states are NOT tropical: Georgia, Louisiana, Alabana, N/S Carolinas are subtropical.

I don't think he was saying that all those climates are tropical.. but that is how he ranks them in terms of overall "tropicalness" with the colder ones obviously being subtropical.

[wavehunter007]

Originally Posted by Snowbird100

I think you altered Koppen's classification of tropical climate.

Tropical Florida includes:
- Southeast Florida: Around West Palm Beach all the way to the Florida Keys (Port St Lucie just missed it by a fraction of a degree to qualify as tropical, I think her Jan average is shy of 64.4, it might be something like 64 or 63.8 or something like that).
- Southwest Florida: Fort Myers and South (Fort Myers is borderline as Koppen classified it as tropical while the US NAOO classified it as subtropical).
- Any other area is Florida is subtropical.

Hawaii is tropical of course.

I think Brownsville is not tropical as it's Jan average is colder than 18C (64.4F), hence disqualified as tropical.

Any other states are NOT tropical: Georgia, Louisiana, Alabana, N/S Carolinas are subtropical.

Based on Koppen’s climate classification…you are indeed right – that 18 C (64.4 F) runs just below Port St. Lucie all the way to Key West. So roughly from around Jupiter southward is tropical. Miami – Ft. Lauderdale is the only major metro on the USA mainland with a tropical climate. On the Gulf of Mexico side, Naples falls into the tropical zone.

However, strictly going by NOAA/NWS monthly mean temp data – the Ft. Myers area doesn’t make the cut – the average January temp is 64 F (misses by 0.4 F). Yet, having been on the Gulf side from Sarasota southward to Naples many times when I lived in Florida- this line seems worthless to me . Here are two pictures – the top one is Hollywood Beach which is technically tropical…..the bottom one is Ft. Myers Beach. Towering Coconut palms seem to be doing well in both climates, in fact they look exactly the same in terms of size and a full crown:

[dunno what to put here]

I always use Koppen, so Ft Myers is tropical to me.