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The driest summer month must also have less than 30mm precipitation, and I used the driest summer month and wettest winter month, rather than the driest and wettest overall (as some years have driest month in spring and wettest in autumn). A lot of summer months in London get around 20-30mm, though the average is skewed upwards by occasional very thundery/showery months with 90-100mm+ such as August 2004 (average summer rainfall in London is about 45mm per month).
The last Csb year using the strictest definition was 2013 (98.2mm in Dec, 11.6mm in Jun), loosening the definition a bit to include September as a 'summer' month, last year was also Csb (162.4mm in Jan, 10.8mm in Sep). The grass dries up and turns yellow/brown, and the clay soil is as hard as concrete pretty much every summer, it's not always the lush green that people associate with England.
Interesting. Over half of the years here would qualify as Csb under that criteria. Summer rainfall is rather variable though, and summer months with high rainfall are still common enough, that Cfb is the correct classification. Plus, convective cloud buildup, indicates that a semi-pernament subtropical high isn't dominant.
Yes, many people get the wrong impression of many Cfb summers -browned off grass and dry ground are standard, even in wet summers.
London is the largest Cfb city in the world, even though it has 'technically' only been Cfb for 14 of the last 30 years.
Technically that statement is incorrect; a climate classification is based off averages at least a few decades, not a single year. A location can't change climate type in one year, it's the overall decadal average the sets the climate.
It's Cfb because the mostly dry summer months (20-30 mm)are interspersed with occasional very wet months like Aug 04 or July 07 (100mm+), bringing the average rainfall up. I did say it was a Cfb climate.
It's Cfb because the mostly dry summer months (20-30 mm)are interspersed with occasional very wet months like Aug 04 or July 07 (100mm+), bringing the average rainfall up. I did say it was a Cfb climate.
I think the nature of the rainfall is more important than just the amount alone.
Does London get semi-permanent high pressure, with rain bearing systems being rare, or does it just get a moderate amount of days, but lacking in bigger totals due to weak systems or lack of orographic effect? - I don't think the latter is indicates a Csb climate
I think the nature of the rainfall is more important than just the amount alone.
Does London get semi-permanent high pressure, with rain bearing systems being rare, or does it just get a moderate amount of days, but lacking in bigger totals due to weak systems or lack of orographic effect?
The Azores high affects southern England in the summer.
In a normal summer month it might rain on 4-5 days in a row and then not rain for the rest of the month, save the odd shower or thunderstorm. It's common to go 2-3 weeks without rain. Summer months here average 6-8 wet days (which are moderate to heavy showers lasting up to an hour or so), whereas in winter it's usually 10-15 wet days (but light rain or drizzle is far more common, lasting a few hours at a time).
A Csb is just a Cfb with a dry summer. The amount is all that matters in the Koppen classification, nothing else.
A Csb is just a Cfb with a dry summer. The amount is all that matters in the Koppen classification, nothing else.
I don't think that is right. A Csb summer is fundamentally different, because of the presence of a semi-permanent high pressure zone as a regular feature- something Cfb climates don't have.
I think amounts do matter, when a climate has a low rainfall variation over the year has like London experiences. London has a higher rain day/rainfall ratio in summer than winter, which effectively means rain is heavier in the summer -isn't that the opposite of what true Csb climates experience?
The rain is heavier in the summer, but it occurs much less often. Even Mediterranean climates get thunderstorms with heavy rain in the summer, just a lot less than in autumn or winter (where they can get an entire day of moderate or heavy rain).
London is a Cfb climate, but the thought that rain is frequent in summer is wrong, when most months get around 20-40mm (below 15mm isn't that uncommon). The average is 45mm because occasionally a month like August 2004 (warm, humid, thundery) or July 2007 (jet stream out of place to the south, cool and rainy) comes along.
The rain is heavier in the summer, but it occurs much less often. Even Mediterranean climates get thunderstorms with heavy rain in the summer, just a lot less than in autumn or winter (where they can get an entire day of moderate or heavy rain).
London is a Cfb climate, but the thought that rain is frequent in summer is wrong, when most months get around 20-40mm (below 15mm isn't that uncommon). The average is 45mm because occasionally a month like August 2004 or July 2007 comes along.
I agree. London doesn't seem like it would be that rainy in summer, with about the same amount of days as here and with only half the rainfall total.
But consistent summer high pressure is the mark of a Mediterranean climate, and I would think my climate gets more high pressure during summer than London, despite the higher rainfall -so I don't think the amount of rainfall matters at all.
But consistent summer high pressure is the mark of a Mediterranean climate, and I would think my climate gets more high pressure during summer than London, despite the higher rainfall -so I don't think the amount of rainfall matters at all.
As we've discussed, our definition of Mediterranean climate disagrees; I don't think that's the only marker. As for the amount of rainfall mattering at all for Cfb, the definition only has rainfall amount so in a sense it's the only thing that matters. Defining by high pressure can be a problem, as high pressure doesn't always mean the same weather in different regions and seasons, though in oceanic climates there should be some similarities but you're using pressure as part of your definition which is a bit circular. I suspect some European Mediterranean climates do not get constant summer high pressure. Much of California is under a thermal low in the summer:
I think you meant under the influence of an oceanic high pressure system
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