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Old 08-22-2015, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,144 posts, read 24,695,670 times
Reputation: 11103

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Isn't calling his opinions wrong also narrow-minded?
No. That's a common fallacy. Like saying "you're a liberal, shouldn't you tolerate nazism as well?"

I, as a liberal, tolerate snj90's opinions, but I support very few of them. But if he says "I'm European", it's just false. He's American. And if I say otherwise it's not narrowmindedness, it's only correcting a false statement.

 
Old 08-22-2015, 10:41 AM
 
Location: South Jersey
14,498 posts, read 9,394,936 times
Reputation: 5251
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunno what to put here View Post
I think one is showing a great degree of narrow-mindedness when he presumes that people are simply following the heard because anything other than your opinion on a particular subject cannot be right (when in actuality you're wrong nearly all the time, as are most right-wing loonies).
The difference is I don't automatically make that pronouncement. In fact, I didn't even say everyone who supports immigration is narrow-minded or misguided. Some, in fact, have a personal interest in it (such as big business leaders). If someone presents a cogent argument for why immigration is good (and for whom?), I would simply consider him wrong, not narrow-minded.

On the other hand, someone who is narrow-minded and who is a follower would tend to follow the values promulgated by the elites of a society. There's no question that includes support for immigration and hostility to those who want to remain homogeneous. I have offered an opinion for why these values are so seemingly widespread. I do think many are simply natural-born followers and will never question societal values. I don't think sharing my position necessarily makes one worldly, either. Rather, I think my position on immigration is more of a traditional one. In some societal circles, the consensus values of the elites haven't quite become as popular. For example, certain rural, insular area may be more recalcitrant in adopting the values of the elites. On the other hand, urban and/or higher class areas may be different in this respect and the people there try to seem more "educated" by adopting these values.
 
Old 08-22-2015, 10:46 AM
 
Location: South Jersey
14,498 posts, read 9,394,936 times
Reputation: 5251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
No. That's a common fallacy. Like saying "you're a liberal, shouldn't you tolerate nazism as well?"

I, as a liberal, tolerate snj90's opinions, but I support very few of them. But if he says "I'm European", it's just false. He's American. And if I say otherwise it's not narrowmindedness, it's only correcting a false statement.
Your position on the term "European" would only be correct if "European" denoted merely a citizenship or a geographic location. In fact, that is not the case.
 
Old 08-22-2015, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
7,033 posts, read 4,931,978 times
Reputation: 2777
Eyyyy lads wasup
 
Old 08-22-2015, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,144 posts, read 24,695,670 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
Your position on the term "European" would only be correct if "European" denoted merely a citizenship or a geographic location. In fact, that is not the case.
That IS the case. You are not Ruthenian, you're American. Have you even ever set your foot in Europe? Just as my ancestry doesn't mean I'm Swedish, then your ancestry certainly doesn't mean you're Ruthenian. You are an American with a Polish and Ukrainian bloodline. That's all. My family had people moving to Illinois and my grandparents lived in upstate NY. Am I American? Definitely not.
 
Old 08-22-2015, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,144 posts, read 24,695,670 times
Reputation: 11103
Let's see how some of our posters' bloodlines make out,

Cambium, Italian-American: he's American
Adi, Indian-Indian: he's an Indian living in the US
dunno, Caribbean-English: he's English
P London, Caribbean-English: he's English
Galaxyman, Hungarian-Australian: he's Australian
Dean York, Hungarian-Indian-English: he's English
jgtheone, Croatian-Australian: he's Australian
nei, Indian-American: he's American
Owen, Irish-Irish: he's Northern Irish
kronan, Swedish-Swedish: he's Swedish
chicagogeorge, Greek-American: he's American
me, Finnish-Swedish-Karelian: I'm Finnish

Simple as that.
 
Old 08-22-2015, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Leeds, UK
22,118 posts, read 29,487,619 times
Reputation: 8819
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
The difference is I don't automatically make that pronouncement. In fact, I didn't even say everyone who supports immigration is narrow-minded or misguided. Some, in fact, have a personal interest in it (such as big business leaders). If someone presents a cogent argument for why immigration is good (and for whom?), I would simply consider him wrong, not narrow-minded.

On the other hand, someone who is narrow-minded and who is a follower would tend to follow the values promulgated by the elites of a society. There's no question that includes support for immigration and hostility to those who want to remain homogeneous. I have offered an opinion for why these values are so seemingly widespread. I do think many are simply natural-born followers and will never question societal values. I don't think sharing my position necessarily makes one worldly, either. Rather, I think my position on immigration is more of a traditional one. In some societal circles, the consensus values of the elites haven't quite become as popular. For example, certain rural, insular area may be more recalcitrant in adopting the values of the elites. On the other hand, urban and/or higher class areas may be different in this respect and the people there try to seem more "educated" by adopting these values.
Well, that's fine. I presume others are wrong too, no matter how cogent their arguments may be, if I simply disagree with their point of view.

And of course, your position is traditional, because immigration is a recent thing, at least it is in Europe. It only began in earnest in the 1960s and really took off in the mid-00s.
 
Old 08-22-2015, 11:18 AM
 
Location: South Jersey
14,498 posts, read 9,394,936 times
Reputation: 5251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
That IS the case. You are not Ruthenian, you're American. Have you even ever set your foot in Europe? Just as my ancestry doesn't mean I'm Swedish, then your ancestry certainly doesn't mean you're Ruthenian. You are an American with a Polish and Ukrainian bloodline. That's all. My family had people moving to Illinois and my grandparents lived in upstate NY. Am I American? Definitely not.
The fact that I am European is nonnegotiable. I have said many times that "European" and "American" are not mutually exclusive (hence the term "European-American" to describe someone like me), so I have no idea why people keep responding to me as if they were.

Saying otherwise like saying the English language as spoken in North America is not "English" because it's not the variety that's spoken in England. Despite the small differences, it is the same language. Likewise, Europeans and European-Americans/Canadians/Australians/etc. are the same people.
 
Old 08-22-2015, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Leeds, UK
22,118 posts, read 29,487,619 times
Reputation: 8819
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
The fact that I am European is nonnegotiable. I have said many times that "European" and "American" are not mutually exclusive (hence the term "European-American" to describe someone like me), so I have no idea why people keep responding to me as if they were.

Saying otherwise like saying the English language as spoken in North America is not "English" because it's not the variety that's spoken in England. Despite the small differences, it is the same language. Likewise, Europeans and European-Americans/Canadians/Australians/etc. are the same people.
You're not European. Accept it, move on, and find purpose in your life.
 
Old 08-22-2015, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
7,033 posts, read 4,931,978 times
Reputation: 2777
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunno what to put here View Post
You're not European. Accept it, move on, and find purpose in your life.
Lololol ol

This is true
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