Is Denver's winter downplayed too much? (places, season, frost, wind speed)
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Dude, you're complaining to somebody from England about Ithaca, New York's "cloudiness". You're not getting anywhere with that. I would assume Ithaca still averages more than 50% sunshine annually (or maybe high 40s percent).
High 40s, proabably. We're talking about winter sunshine though. Binghamton reports 32% in November, 29% of sunshine in December and 37% in January. Syracuse 27%, 25%, and 33% in the same months; Portland 28%, 23% and 28%; slightly lower annually than Binghamton but higher than Syracuse. I'm familiar with that area of New York, it feels gloomy and gray. The sun peeks out for an hour, than gray stratus comes back in and spits some snow or maybe liquid drizzle at you "Ithacating". Repeat. It's sunnier than England, but in the winter I doubt it's that much. I can't find sunshine % for England, I only see hours listed and I'm too lazy to convert. I dislike hours because it reflect daylight differences rather than just climate.
Dude, you're complaining to somebody from England about Ithaca, New York's "cloudiness". You're not getting anywhere with that. I would assume Ithaca still averages more than 50% sunshine annually (or maybe high 40s percent).
His point was that it if to dunno the Pacific NW counts as genuinely cloudy, a large part of New York State should just as well.
High 40s, proabably. We're talking about winter sunshine though. Binghamton reports 32% in November, 29% of sunshine in December and 37% in January. Syracuse 27%, 25%, and 33% in the same months; Portland 28%, 23% and 28%; slightly lower annually than Binghamton but higher than Syracuse. I'm familiar with that area of New York, it feels gloomy and gray. The sun peeks out for an hour, than gray stratus comes back in and spits some snow or maybe liquid drizzle at you "Ithacating". Repeat. It's sunnier than England, but in the winter I doubt it's that much. I can't find sunshine % for England, I only see hours listed and I'm too lazy to convert. I dislike hours because it reflect daylight differences rather than just climate.
Yeah, winter does seem to gloomy in that area. I would assume though that if it average about say 48% and it looks to be in the high 20s/low 30s percent during the darker months, summer would have to average at least 65% or so possible sunshine? I mean it's gloomy in winter, but year-round it's not horrible.
I agree re: hours. I think percentage is a better tool to use because sunshine hours would be heavily skewed towards high latitudes in summer and the opposite in winter.
His point was that it if to dunno the Pacific NW counts as genuinely cloudy, a large part of New York State should just as well.
I feel like Seattle has more of a reputation for being cloudy rather than being genuinely cloudy. Genuinely cloudy should be a place that is cloudy for a noticeable majority of the time (perhaps less than 40% annual possible sunshine?)
Yeah, winter does seem to gloomy in that area. I would assume though that if it average about say 48% and it looks to be in the high 20s/low 30s percent during the darker months, summer would have to average at least 65% or so possible sunshine? I mean it's gloomy in winter, but year-round it's not horrible.
Summer is almost as sunny downstate NY. You could also say the same year-around about the Pacific Northwest, averages come out similar, a little less but not much. I think the pattern is a bit different in the Pacific Northwest, tending to get stuck more on clouds for days and then short times of completely clear (and the reverse in summer) while upstate NY stays mostly cloudy and the sun peeks out occasionally. And more partly cloudy in the warmer months.
I feel like Seattle has more of a reputation for being cloudy rather than being genuinely cloudy. Genuinely cloudy should be a place that is cloudy for a noticeable majority of the time (perhaps less than 40% annual possible sunshine?)
It's exaggerated I think partly because the surrounding areas where people are comparing to are very sunny — interior Mountain West or California. I remember a local didn't seem to get it when I said the summers felt dry to me, he was telling their summer weather isn't great and gets clouds and rain often — think his only point of comparison was other parts of the west. Seattle does deserve some of its reputation for cloudiness because of how concentrated the cloudiness is
There is - the former feels colder. Humid cold only feels 'worse' if it's raining. Increased moisture in the air makes it warmer, not colder - why do you believe the opposite is true? People don't say a dry 40C feels warmer than a humid 40C so why do people pretend that it's true when it's cold? A humid 20F does not feel colder than a dry 20F. Add any wind at all and a dry cold suddenly feels a lot colder.
Hm so that is why we feel uncomfortable both in Serres and Ioannina. We are coudy for most of the time in winter and fog is very common. Plus in Ioannina it rains most of the time and for many hours moderately or heavily. Interesting.
Now for Denver. I think that it is cold enough to say that its winters are harsh. Those -8 C average low are cold enough to feel freezing. And if I understood well it has so great diurnal range maybe due to the sunny weather and the elevation? Because if we have clear skies in Ioannina the result is the same (mild highs around 10 C with subfreezing lows around -4 C) due to temperature inversion. It is just mild for some hours at noon and then after the sunset the temperature falls rapidly till the next late morning. Or those averages of Denver come from a different pattern?
I think people think humid cold feels colder than dry cold because of what's associated with humid cold (fog, rain, overcast). It's not the humidity itself, in fact there is no scientific study at all that humid cold feels colder. In fact the opposite is true. With the the same exact factors (clouds, wind, etc), 30 F with a 30 F dew point would feel warmer than 30 F with a 0 F dew point.
Well, I know that I feel colder if the cold is humid, and we have plenty of it here. Winters here can be brutal because the humidity is often near 100%, even sometimes on sunny days, and there's not much you can do to stay warm. I even bought warmer clothing to live here. That said we rarely go below -10c in the winter (and that would be at night), yet I don't look forward for it even if I like cold weather.
I feel nowhere near as cold in the mountain at the same temperature than I do here, and I've been to colder, drier places (including Canada) and I felt much better.
Sure, sunny conditions are always gonna feel warmer, but that's not the only factor. I like cool grey windy days in the fall, too bad they are almost non-existent here.
I imagine it's not true for everyone though, I have met people who complained about the dryness of the winter back when I lived in France, and I didn't know what they meant because I have never felt anything wrong with that.
People are used to different conditions, and not everyone wll feel great in the same weather. I know I feel better in drier weather, it feels more refreshing in general, it feels right for me.
Just because some scientific study proves something does not mean that it's gonna work for everyone. There are plenty of people who like super humid weather in the summer, or others who like drizzle. I don't like either, but I'm not gonna say they are wrong or that they are liars. People are into different things.
The intense sun in Denver is what makes the winter feel nicer than back east, but when that sun is gone, it gets really cold and fast. Those snowstorms are much more intense than back east. Also, the nightly lows are really low, even on the warm days. I'm talking nightly lows of 30 even if it gets to 65 that day, or nightly lows of 15 even if it gets to 45. Then when it's snowy it can be highs of 15 with lows of -5 or worse. There are times it doesn't get above zero.
In general, mid winter from January to February is probably better in Denver than in other Northeastern cities due to sunshine and milder daytime temps, but October-December and March to May is milder in the Northeast.
So do you want to sacrifice a colder spring for a milder winter? That's your choice.
The other difference between Denver and many other climates is the day to day variability. Here's a similar High Plains climate with colder averages. Here's the distribution of January maxes for Great Falls:
and a New England climate with slightly warmer average maxes but not by much
Red vertical line is the monthly average max, yellow vertical average coldest January in a year. For the New England climate, the variability might be rather high compared to an oceanic climate, but the mode is the mean and the temperatures cluster around the mean/ mode with some spread. For the High Plains, the mode and the mean are completely different. The temperatures cluster are the much warmer mode, but there's a long tail of colder temperatures where the frequency doesn't drop much with temperatures. I don't have Vancouver data, but Portland Oregon is similar with somewhat warmer averages. There, the mean and mode are the same with a symmetric distribution [this is for December, January and February] so the graph is smoother.
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