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OP said, downtown Vancouver, which is milder than the official weather station at airport.
UHI just like London.
Cocos need a true tropical climate, not warmish med climate of Malta at 36N
Downtown Vancouver still has cooler winters than Heathrow, and the record low is about 3c lower than Heathrow's record low. CIDPs grow in the Heathrow area but I can't imagine them doing well even in the heart of Vancouver's UHI.
And they also said in the city of Valletta, not the airport weather station (inland & 300ft asl) where the climate stats for Malta come from...
Cocos nucifera do not actually need a true tropical climate, as they are happily growing in some far from tropical climates... There are some growing in southern California, Madeira & there are even mature ones growing on Porto Santo Island, which lies to the north east of Madeira & has cooler winter highs than Newport Beach has (which also sustained a coconut for 30 odd years)...
No one is debating that a coconut could grow anywhere in Malta, or would be long term, but I think it would be possible to keep one going for a few years at least in the right micro-climate. There was someone in Marbella, southern Spain, that managed to grow coconuts in his garden & they lasted for several years & the average highs there in winter (as well as the lows) are cooler than my location in coastal Malta...
Lots of rumors...where is the photo evidence? Happily growing? You think the Newport coconut was happily growing? A coconut will never "happily grow" in Malta...more like slowly dying and declining. ~60F (with a high around 70F) mean in winter in a humid subtropical climate is the limit for a somewhat happily growing coconut.
The city of Valleta probably has slightly lower max temps. and slightly higher min temps than the airport...no?
Lots of rumors...where is the photo evidence? Happily growing? You think the Newport coconut was happily growing? A coconut will never "happily grow" in Malta...more like slowly dying and declining. ~60F (with a high around 70F) mean in winter in a humid subtropical climate is the limit for a somewhat happily growing coconut.
The city of Valleta probably has slightly lower max temps. and slightly higher min temps than the airport...no?
Vancouver has a better shot with CIDP.
Lots of rumors of what? Coconuts growing in southern California, Madeira & Porto Santos? I posted a link showing the coconut palms in La Qunita & Palm Desert California And google Funchal Marina you can see photos of the coconuts there... Here are some growing on Porto Santo Island (which has cooler average highs than Newport Beach in winter): https://www.360cities.net/image/mira...1.98,9.02,13.1
I never said the Newport Beach coconut was "happily" growing, I stated that there are indeed coconut palms happily growing in areas that are not tropical
It seems you just skim over everything I write in your hurry to write "Coconuts cannot grow in Malta"
For the 83rd time, I never said coconuts CAN grow in Malta, I simply made the point that in a sheltered micro-climate that one could SURVIVE for a few years POSSIBLY I never said it would be "happy" or look in perfect condition...
Porto Santo is warmer than Newport Beach in Winter , and the weather station of Porto Santo ( 97m) is located quite a bit higher in altitude than that Coconut near the Coast. And the averages aren't that new either. (1947-1990) http://www.dwd.de/DWD/klima/beratung..._085240_kt.pdf
I agree with most of your viewpoints and i think a coconut in a sheltered spot in coastal Malta can survive for a few years.
Edit: I hope the poster below this post is a troll/parody account and not serious.
Lots of rumors of what? Coconuts growing in southern California, Madeira & Porto Santos? I posted a link showing the coconut palms in La Qunita & Palm Desert California And google Funchal Marina you can see photos of the coconuts there... Here are some growing on Porto Santo Island (which has cooler average highs than Newport Beach in winter): https://www.360cities.net/image/mira...1.98,9.02,13.1
I never said the Newport Beach coconut was "happily" growing, I stated that there are indeed coconut palms happily growing in areas that are not tropical
It seems you just skim over everything I write in your hurry to write "Coconuts cannot grow in Malta"
For the 83rd time, I never said coconuts CAN grow in Malta, I simply made the point that in a sheltered micro-climate that one could SURVIVE for a few years POSSIBLY I never said it would be "happy" or look in perfect condition...
My brain hurts.
Southern California is a lot hotter than Malta. Summers are 80-120F. Winters are 60-100F. Of course Coconut trees can grow here.
Porto Santo is warmer than Newport Beach in Winter , and the weather station of Porto Santo ( 97m) is located quite a bit higher in altitude than that Coconut near the Coast. And the averages aren't that new either. (1947-1990) http://www.dwd.de/DWD/klima/beratung..._085240_kt.pdf
I agree with most of your viewpoints and i think a coconut in a sheltered spot in coastal Malta can survive for a few years.
I was going by the averages for both locations on Wikipedia, Porto Santo has warmer minimums but Newport Beach has slightly higher average maximums...
Someone has been growing one in Paphos Cyprus for a few years too, giving only protection from winter rain, the average highs there are only marginally higher than Malta in the winter (the averages on Wikipedia are actually only for the period 1991-2005)...
The negativity (& general over the top comments) from some on here is actually making me want to try a coconut here now lol
I was going by the averages for both locations on Wikipedia, Porto Santo has warmer minimums but Newport Beach has slightly higher average maximums...
Someone has been growing one in Paphos Cyprus for a few years too, giving only protection from winter rain, the average highs there are only marginally higher than Malta in the winter (the averages on Wikipedia are actually only for the period 1991-2005)...
The negativity (& general over the top comments) from some on here is actually making me want to try a coconut here now lol
I've changed these averages (Newport beach) to the official ones from NOAA
National Weather Service - NWS San Diego ----> Newport Beach Habour.
Weather.com averages are often not equal with the official ones.(I guess they've taken them from a nearby more inland location.)
I think you should try a coconut , although i think i've heard you say that they are very hard to get in Malta.
I'm lurking on Palmtalk, but i'm not a member of the forum.
I've changed these averages (Newport beach) to the official ones from NOAA
National Weather Service - NWS San Diego ----> Newport Beach Habour.
Weather.com averages are often not equal with the official ones.(I guess they've taken them from a nearby more inland location.)
I think you should try a coconut , although i think i've heard you say that they are very hard to get in Malta.
I'm lurking on Palmtalk, but i'm not a member of the forum.
Ah ok, yeah the ones I saw were an average max a little over 18C/64F in January... The only long term averages in Malta are from inland locations (Luqa airport & Balzan) I have only been here 3 winters & my average high in January works out at 17.0C/63F & average low 12.8C/55F & last winter was the coldest in 25 years. I am under no illusion that a coconut here would ever look perfect or would last longer than a few years, but I used to grow marginal palms in the UK that would only last a few years too, so that doesn't really matter to me, it is the challenge of getting something to grow somewhere it really shouldn't
Apparently sometimes LIDL get coconut palms here, but those will be the force grown Holland type that they sell in IKEA etc.. My best bet would be to try & grow one myself from a store bought coconut, I did have one sprout in the garden last summer that I left in a pot in the shade, but snails ate the emerging shoot & it then went brown... Not sure if I even have a suitable spot to try one though...
I'm a member of the IPS & EPS & have been growing palms for over 20 years, so I'm not a complete novice when it comes to palms
go for it flamingGalah!, i love rooting for the underdog.
i don't believe there is a clear winner...
statistically speaking planting a random mature coconut palm in a random spot in Valletta vs a random mature CIDP in a random spot in Vancouver the CIDP will probably last 3 years or more while the coconut will likely die from insufficient average winter temperatures within the first year or two.
that being said, if you happen to plant a mature, genetically superior coconut specimen in the warmest microclimate in Valletta, it might have the ability to survive far longer than the equivalent best case scenario for a CIDP in Vancouver. Going by record low temperatures, 35°F in itself is not deadly to a coconut. of course depending on how long it lasts. while 0°F no matter how you slice it will kill any CIDP.
they say a monthly mean of 60°F/15.5°C for a coconut, anything less and you are asking for trouble. so yes 54°F is a scary prospect.
but what is the lowest monthly mean that a CIDP can safely tolerate? (assuming no threat of a sub 15°F cold snap)
is 39°F pushing it? we know of a few CIDP in London's centre (44°F with record low around 12°F) and near England's southern coast (say Dover, 42°F with record low of 18°F) but these are places that are warmer than anything you could find in Vancouver (maybe 40°F with record low around 3°F as a best case scenario?).
what is Valletta's best case scenario? 55°F with record low of 36°F? starting to look more like a fair fight.
so i'd sum it up this way: in the short term, Vancouver's CIDP would win, but in the long term if the coconut in Valletta can survive the first few winters successfully, it may survive many more winters from then on, so as stunted and sickly as it would be, the coconut would be alive while Vancouver's CIDP will absolutely die from the sub 15°F that it sees occasionally. so Valletta would win.
total guesstimations here, just to help illustrate what i am trying to say:
~60% chance of a CIDP surviving the first 3 years in Vancouver.
~30% chance of a coconut surviving the first 3 years in Valletta.
~15% chance of a CIDP surviving the first 15 years in Vancouver.
~15% chance of a coconut surviving the first 15 years in Valletta.
~1% chance of a CIDP surviving 30 years in Vancouver.
~5% chance of a coconut surviving 30 years in Valletta.
the percentages themselves aren't important, but the ratio between both locations during the timeline is.
Last edited by Sir Goosenseresworthie; 02-06-2016 at 03:18 PM..
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And google Funchal Marina you can see photos of the coconuts there... Here are some growing on Porto Santo Island (which has cooler average highs than Newport Beach in winter):
I never said it would be "happy" or look in perfect condition... 
