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By your logic, wellington is a better place to be homeless than Nelson. I think that shows poor reasoning on
your behalf
Isn't it (just because of the weather, not considering other factors)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by forgotten username
When I was younger I used to always wonder why when I saw homeless people in the street they were always wearing a coat, even during a nice 25c sunny day. Staying outside in cool temperatures for a long time makes you cool down a lot, whereas the same temperature would feel totally ok if you were there for a walk, like for instance mild winter temperatures (for me like a 10c in winter which is mild by my standards and nice to take a walk)
I have spent many winter evenings in unheated basements with temps above freezing with no heating whatsoever, and after 5 hours there it was horrendous if I didn't have a thick parka with a wool sweater complete with gloves and hat, and even with all of that it hardly felt nice, especially with these high winter dewpoints we have here. Keep in mind that I'm a winter lover and that I love snow.
That's why I think that if you are homeless a tropical or near tropical climate is still better than a mild climate with cool winters. As much as I dread high humidity and a neverending summer, if I had to live outside I'd rather the temperature would rarely dip below 10c. Also, Miami rarely gets above 35c (I guess), so it's rarely extreme heat (but the humidity seems quite harsh though).
I live in a 20 °C bedroom. I hardly stay outside all day (maybe 10 times a year?), and it's true that cool temperatures will feel worse after, say, 5 hours. Not 10 °C, though, as I can stay all day with that temperature wearing a long-sleeved shirt that's the same as a short-sleeved one, just with long sleeves, and not have any problem. It just doesn't feel cold at all to me.
I've been at an outdoor party, though, in rather cool/cold weather, for about 3 hours, in 2014. The high for that day was 3 °C, and it was constantly alternating between clear and overcast, with some partly cloudy and mostly cloudy transitional moments, but the windchill never rose above freezing. I was wearing a heavy jacket and gloves, and was eating what there was to eat (mainly chocolate cookies). During the sunlight hours I was feeling fine, but after sunset it seemed much colder, and everyone said it was cold (mainly because it was getting windier, at around 40 km/h). When it was completely dark, the temperature dropped to -2 °C, and the wind was around 50 km/h, and the windchill was below -10 °C. It felt like an icebox, with those freezing winds that would make you shiver.
There was an instance of a 10 °C post-sunset evening that my friends said it was cold, but I didn't feel cold at all, and I think I could have stayed outside for as long as I wanted.
I think, if you dress appropriately, you can be comfortable in an Auckland winter. I'm not homeless, never have been, so I don't know how exactly it feels, I'm sure it feels terrible.
However, most people live in buildings. If you don't use A/C, I'm almost sure that the temperature gets above 29 °C most of the time, which is really bad. Cfb climates with warmer winters like Auckland would probably require less money to get a comfortable temperature inside the building year-round, compared to a place like Savannah (Georgia), for example.
What I wanted to say opening this thread was not this, though.
I wanted to express my preference over a climate like La Serena (whose precipitation I absolutely hate), which has mild temperatures, compared to a place that has hotter summers (though not as hot as tropical ones) but extremely cold winters.
If anyone has any doubt, the most primitive societies in the world - the ones with little/shoddy shelter with no sophisticated forms of heat and cooling are all in tropical locations.
The reason is there was never a need for any innovation in those places. The temperature was always fine, fruit ripened season long.
It was only as humans trekked north, when they began to encounter winter, that they were forced to adept by making warm clothes, insulated shelters, and heating systems.
And yes, even Mediterranean climates have heating systems.
If humankind always kept staying in the tropics, we would probably have stayed chimp-like.
It was the need of new technology (like fire and clothing) that kept humans getting better.
I know that Mediterannean climates have heating systems. A place like Albany, for example, might get too cool to be comfortable during the winter. It's not like if you don't heat your home you'll die, but you'll be uncomfortable. It's the same thing in the summer, but for some reason, people don't seem to use A/C as much as heating (but they will still complain that it's too hot), especially in Europe and South Asia. It seems that people feel guilty about using that because they think they'll be polluting, rather than actually not needing A/C.
If anyone has any doubt, the most primitive societies in the world - the ones with little/shoddy shelter with no sophisticated forms of heat and cooling are all in tropical locations.
The reason is there was never a need for any innovation in those places. The temperature was always fine, fruit ripened season long.
It was only as humans trekked north, when they began to encounter winter, that they were forced to adept by making warm clothes, insulated shelters, and heating systems.
And yes, even Mediterranean climates have heating systems.
yeah, I agree with that. Also, Jared Diamond's theories are interesting about this (never thought I would mention him on a message board but "Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies" is a great read)
It's not like if you don't heat your home you'll die,
It's very much "if you don't get heat in your home, you will die" and that's precisely what happens to homeless people across the USA every winter, even in California. It happened in San Jose, which has warmer winters than much of the European mediterranean. So I don't see why you're arguing this. I'm sorry, even in clothes, it's a struggle for the human body to stay warm in 10 C.
It's very much "if you don't get heat in your home, you will die" and that's precisely what happens to homeless people across the USA every winter, even in California. It happened in San Jose, which has warmer winters than much of the European mediterranean. So I don't see why you're arguing this. I'm sorry, even in clothes, it's a struggle for the human body to stay warm in 10 C.
I certainly don't struggle to keep warm at 10 °C. -10 °C is much worse, to the point where you feel cold all over your body, and staying outside for more than 20 minutes feels very bad. +10 °C doesn't give me this feeling at all, I can stay outside as long as I want, I don't struggle at all.
Tropical climates give you a high risk of heatstroke. People die in hot weather every year, but you are nitpicking, making everyone think that winters in California are cold.
Tropical climates give you a high risk of heatstroke.
No they don't, even on the hottest days in Miami, there are no programs to get the homeless off the streets and into shelters with AC. There is simply no recognized risk there.
If you can last for prolonged periods outside in 10C, that's great but also makes you highly highly exceptional. And also makes me question why you set your thermostat in the 60s.
I'd think San Diego summers are more comfortable for the homeless than Miami ones.
I find it hard to sleep when the house is above 80F. Daytime highs in the mid 70s and lows in the upper 60s is more comfortable when out in the elements than 90/78. Also what do the homeless do when those strong thunderstorms with powerful winds hit? What about a hurricane or tropical storm?
Wouldn't you say this (typical July in San Diego before our warm epoch hit) requires no AC or heat and one can comfortably stay outside all day and night in regular clothes?
First of all, the conversation of AC only applies to your home. I bet on those nights you wanted to AC if you merely slept outside you'd find it comfortable or even cold. The fact is, even an unheated home, is designed to trap and store heat. Most homes also have still air (whereas outside is breezy) making the air a worse heat conductor.
Anyways, the relevant debate is not San Diego summer vs Miami summer but Miami year-round versus San Diego year-round. And San Diego year-round is worse for homeless people simple because nights below 55F are an absolute misery for them, and they are dealing with that constantly in a San Diego winter.
That's my thought...I do find it interesting so many people are okay with extreme cold. I've worked near both places and La Serena climate I love.
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