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I don't see how Portugal is more typical of the mediterranean definition than the actual mediterranean basin
Because, apart from the north, it has drier summers than most of the NW Med and much lower dew points and SSTs than the whole basin. I guess the caricatural mediteranean climate has nearly zero precip in summer, a large dirunal range and low dew points in the warm season and chilly SSTs from a cold current.
Maybe not a big diurnal range, but a strong seasonal precipitation contrast with very little summer rain. I think almost all other "non-Mediterranean Mediterranean" climates have a cool current nearby
Maybe not a big diurnal range, but a strong seasonal precipitation contrast with very little summer rain. I think almost all other "non-Mediterranean Mediterranean" climates have a cool current nearby
I know off the Chilean coast the water is very cold
"A good portion of NZ has a subarctic/tundra type of climate thanks to its mountains, whereas the UK is virtually oceanic. Just because the UK has cooler winters than NZ doesn't mean it's all of a sudden "continental". You can might as well say that NZ is subtropical, because its winters are relatively warm."
The elephant in the room missing from these posts about NZ vs. UK is that the adiabatic lapse rate is much higher in NZ. It's because the Antarctic is an absolutely huge frozen massif and thus cools the upper levels of the atmosphere throughout the southern hemisphere more than the Arctic, which is merely a frozen ocean. That's why glaciers are found at ridiculously low altitudes in New Zealand (for now LOL) and why the interior part of the landmass can have surprisingly cold winter weather (places like Ranfurly) even though the coastal areas are definitely milder than the UK due to the great distance to any truly continental landmass and lower latitude. (Large Phoenix palms found over most of the coast, even down to Dunedin, versus only at Fota and extreme SW Cornwall in the British Isles) I'd still consider them variations on "oceanic" with perhaps the northern tip of NZ blending into subtropical...though the summers really aren't much warmer there. (as an aside I detest the Koppen type definition of subtropical, putting for example Washington DC into that classification with much, much milder cities. There should be some basic sanity check: it can only be a subtropical climate if you can grow Satsumas or something...and the average human being doesn't need a heavy jacket in winter. Maybe starting in Charleston, SC)
It also explains quite a few other "mysteries" about antipodal climates but I'll leave that as an exercise for others. (Take for example Colfax California having fewer night frosts than Canberra, AU, when every other factor suggests it should have more...)
Calling a climate "humid subtropical", for instance, is pretty misleading because it doesn't have to be humid at all really to get the right qualifications under the Koppen system. What Cfa really means is >0C winters and >23C summers and relatively even rainfall. Humid and subtropical have nothing to do with it. Well OK, they are usually subtropical, but then Mediterranean climates are in the subtropics too. All this semantics feels a bit pointless.
Sticking to the thread topic though, it's only called Mediterranean because that's where western civilisation started, in which case the theme would go;
British, or Anglian maybe for Cfb
European, or Slavic, or Russian even for Df climates
Saharan for deserts
Generally places close to Europe.
Good call on desert climates being "Saharan". And finally someone sticking to this thread's topic.
I really disagree about European/Slavic being used for Df climates, as Europe is very oceanic influenced. There is hardly a true Df climate in Europe, if I'm not mistaken. And don't forget, most of Europe is prettry much Cfb. So if anything, "European climate" would sound more suited for "oceanic" rather than for continental.
"A good portion of NZ has a subarctic/tundra type of climate thanks to its mountains, whereas the UK is virtually oceanic. Just because the UK has cooler winters than NZ doesn't mean it's all of a sudden "continental". You can might as well say that NZ is subtropical, because its winters are relatively warm."
The elephant in the room missing from these posts about NZ vs. UK is that the adiabatic lapse rate is much higher in NZ. It's because the Antarctic is an absolutely huge frozen massif and thus cools the upper levels of the atmosphere throughout the southern hemisphere more than the Arctic, which is merely a frozen ocean. That's why glaciers are found at ridiculously low altitudes in New Zealand (for now LOL) and why the interior part of the landmass can have surprisingly cold winter weather (places like Ranfurly) even though the coastal areas are definitely milder than the UK due to the great distance to any truly continental landmass and lower latitude. (Large Phoenix palms found over most of the coast, even down to Dunedin, versus only at Fota and extreme SW Cornwall in the British Isles) I'd still consider them variations on "oceanic" with perhaps the northern tip of NZ blending into subtropical...though the summers really aren't much warmer there. (as an aside I detest the Koppen type definition of subtropical, putting for example Washington DC into that classification with much, much milder cities. There should be some basic sanity check: it can only be a subtropical climate if you can grow Satsumas or something...and the average human being doesn't need a heavy jacket in winter. Maybe starting in Charleston, SC)
It also explains quite a few other "mysteries" about antipodal climates but I'll leave that as an exercise for others. (Take for example Colfax California having fewer night frosts than Canberra, AU, when every other factor suggests it should have more...)
I think it's the summers that give the UK more continental influence, rather than the winters. It's also the UK that has the relatively warm winter, not NZ
... That's why glaciers are found at ridiculously low altitudes in New Zealand (for now LOL) and why the interior part of the landmass can have surprisingly cold winter weather (places like Ranfurly) even though the coastal areas are definitely milder than the UK due to the great distance to any truly continental landmass and lower latitude. (Large Phoenix palms found over most of the coast, even down to Dunedin, versus only at Fota and extreme SW Cornwall in the British Isles) I'd still consider them variations on "oceanic" with perhaps the northern tip of NZ blending into subtropical...
Actually some coastal areas of New Zealand have colder temperatures in winter than many parts of southern coastal UK. The main difference is that New Zealand will have higher daytime temperatures & colder night time lows, where the reverse is true in the UK...
Large Phoenix palms are also found right along the south coast of the UK, up around into coastal Essex, as well as in London...
"Large Phoenix palms are also found right along the south coast of the UK, up around into coastal Essex, as well as in London..."
If I'm not mistaken though, they haven't lasted through a winter like 95-96, the last really, really cold winter the UK had. I've seen the largest Phoenix in London, myself, in person. But all all of the bigger ones outwith Cornwall were planted post 1996, and it's safe to assume another winter like that one or 1963 would finish them off.
By large I meant, really large, really old, like this one: botanical garden photography blog - Botanical garden photography
Oops - that was the first link that came up. I really wasn't being sarcastic. I didn't know it was dead. I think maybe old age contributed in that case...still point being one has to acknowledge that, though being similar climates, coastal NZ is milder than coastal UK/Ireland. Overall. Every 20 to 30 years a winter is going to knock the Phoenix back to, for the most part, the Scilly Islands or the mildest bits of Ireland. The same doesn't happen in coastal NZ.
Granted I might be making things unnecessarily confusing but sort of considering means and extremes as a weighted average instead of separately. So to me the mildness of NZ is partly an absence of extreme lows - as you would expect since the nearest polar-connected continent is so far away. No "Siberian Express" in the southern hemisphere! Even if the lapse rate is high. Take for example Queenstown: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queenstown,_New_Zealand Very cool nights for an oceanic climate...it is quite a way from the coast and has 300m of elevation. But the record low? Only 17F/-8.4C! We all know the places in the UK that have January averages of -1.7 C will have much, much lower record lows than that.
Last edited by ZigZagBoom; 05-27-2016 at 04:33 PM..
The Queenstown airport site has proximity to a lake, sits above the confluence of two rivers and has a strong downslope wind in cold clear weather. I'm pretty sure the temperature gets within a degree or two of that record in every year. I'm guessing record cold temperatures in the rest of the basin, would be closer to -12/-15C, with Arrowtown having an unofficial low around -20C.
The UK generally colder record lows, reflect it's latitude and proximity to a continental landmass.
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