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Yeah under Köppen I've never really fully understood his definition of a dry-summer climate but I've heard one month below 30 mm and two months below 40 mm. I guess the climates that have two months at say 32 and 37 are borderline. That type is quite common in central Italy.
Concepción? Dry-summer oceanic, which is how I distinguish climates with dry summers but with too high annual precipitation to be a climate by the Mediterranean Sea. Concepción is also an outlying climate similar to Porto and Eureka - which drives much more winter precipitation. Had Concepción met the subtropical standards definition would have been trickier since dry-summer subtropical is the whole definition of a Med climate. Then I'd probably would've gone for just wet and dry humid subtropical.
But everybody can have their own opinions. I can happily agree that there is a case for calling Concepción mediterranean as well, as long as Tillamook ain't called it I'm happy I described it as borderline on Wiki, but having said that it was because Köppen is standard there.
Yeah under Köppen I've never really fully understood his definition of a dry-summer climate but I've heard one month below 30 mm and two months below 40 mm. I guess the climates that have two months at say 32 and 37 are borderline. That type is quite common in central Italy.
Concepción? Dry-summer oceanic, which is how I distinguish climates with dry summers but with too high annual precipitation to be a climate by the Mediterranean Sea. Concepción is also an outlying climate similar to Porto and Eureka - which drives much more winter precipitation. Had Concepción met the subtropical standards definition would have been trickier since dry-summer subtropical is the whole definition of a Med climate. Then I'd probably would've gone for just wet and dry humid subtropical.
But everybody can have their own opinions. I can happily agree that there is a case for calling Concepción mediterranean as well, as long as Tillamook ain't called it I'm happy I described it as borderline on Wiki, but having said that it was because Köppen is standard there.
How would you classify this extremely rainy winter/hot dry summer climate? Which actually was my first dream climate way back when I started coming here.
|Jan high C = 10
|Feb high C = 11
|Mar high C = 13
|Apr high C = 16
|May high C = 21
|Jun high C = 25
|Jul high C = 29
|Aug high C = 29
|Sep high C = 25
|Oct high C = 20
|Nov high C = 15
|Dec high C = 11
|year high C = 18.8
|Jan low C = 4
|Feb low C = 4
|Mar low C = 7
|Apr low C = 9
|May low C = 11
|Jun low C = 14
|Jul low C = 17
|Aug low C = 18
|Sep low C = 15
|Oct low C = 12
|Nov low C = 8
|Dec low C = 6
|year low C = 10.4
|precipitation colour = green
|Jan precipitation mm = 510
|Feb precipitation mm = 438
|Mar precipitation mm = 320
|Apr precipitation mm = 156
|May precipitation mm = 66
|Jun precipitation mm = 25
|Jul precipitation mm = 10
|Aug precipitation mm = 4
|Sep precipitation mm = 12
|Oct precipitation mm = 70
|Nov precipitation mm = 217
|Dec precipitation mm = 361
|year precipitation mm = 2189
|Jan sun = 65
|Feb sun = 87
|Mar sun = 121
|Apr sun = 192
|May sun = 260
|Jun sun = 316
|Jul sun = 337
|Aug sun = 328
|Sep sun = 263
|Oct sun = 233
|Nov sun = 144
|Dec sun = 96
|year sun = 2442
And another thing how can you say Bergen is semi-arid compared to Tillamook? They both have almost the same amount of rain.
It's just like this: In Europe where I live, where the Med actually is, no place with a dry-summer climate and with the 'summer' feeling added onto it go above 1000 mm in a year as far as I know. They are only found in Portugal and Galicia.
1000 mm is wetter than so many oceanic climates in a year, it's even high by British (!) standards.
That baseline may be hard, but for a med climate to reach 1000 mm it has to be at the centre of low-pressure systems all winters, in effect in coastal westerly positions. I solve this problem by classifying Porto and Braga as humid subtropical. There is enough humidity in those climates during summers even if they are dry to feel subtropical in that sense.
I think 1000 mm is quite fair even though no line is perfect. Those hardcore wet climates with more than 2000 mm in Oregon that are sometimes referred to as mediterranean under Köppen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tillamook,_Oregon#Climate) are in fact as far from a sunny, pleasant mediterranean climate with a few heavy showers in winter as you can get.
That place makes Bergen in Norway look like a semi-arid calm place
Antalya, Turkey? 1057mm and December has 120X the amount of rain as July. There are also 4 months with under an inch of rain 4 months with over 5 inches. Tell me that's not Mediterranean. Mediterranean doesn't mean a sunny, pleasant climate, it means a climate with a marked decrease of rainfall in summer.
Also, "feel" and "humidity" don't matter in climate. If you have somewhere like Porto with very wet winters and dry summers, it is Mediterranean. It clearly has a high pressure system over it in summer and a low in winter. Again, being at the center of low pressure all winter reinforces it as a med climate, as that is the time of year rain falls in those climates. As for tilamook, with winter 10X as wet as summer, it is Mediterranean. You can't ignore the high ratio just because "it has too much rain".
What would Melbourne be then? The warmest month averages 21.3C but goes above 22C about half the time (since the 1950s) and all months average above 10C (July 10.7C). Rainfall is uniform through the year but winter has almost twice as many rain days as summer. "Oceanic" sounds more correct than "humid subtropical" but it's basically borderline. I think summers are too inconsistent for it to be truly Cfa though, whatever the averages might say.
What would Melbourne be then? The warmest month averages 21.3C but goes above 22C about half the time (since the 1950s) and all months average above 10C (July 10.7C). Rainfall is uniform through the year but winter has almost twice as many rain days as summer. "Oceanic" sounds more correct than "humid subtropical" but it's basically borderline. I think summers are too inconsistent for it to be truly Cfa though, whatever the averages might say.
A Cfb climate, just a very warm one . It's the qualitative aspects that make it Cfb, more so than the quantitive ones ... imo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lommaren
1000 mm is wetter than so many oceanic climates in a year, it's even high by British (!) standards.
That baseline may be hard, but for a med climate to reach 1000 mm it has to be at the centre of low-pressure systems all winters, in effect in coastal westerly positions.
That isn't necessarily so. My Cfb climate receives more rainfall than that, but I would describe high pressure as being more dominant during winter here, so other climates at similar latitudes (Med climates ) could be expected to be similar
Quote:
I solve this problem by classifying Porto and Braga as humid subtropical. There is enough humidity in those climates during summers even if they are dry to feel subtropical in that sense.
I think 1000 mm is quite fair even though no line is perfect. Those hardcore wet climates with more than 2000 mm in Oregon that are sometimes referred to as mediterranean under Köppen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tillamook,_Oregon#Climate) are in fact as far from a sunny, pleasant mediterranean climate with a few heavy showers in winter as you can get.
That place makes Bergen in Norway look like a semi-arid calm place
Classification has nothing to do with feel. My climate would feel nothing like Bergen either, despite both being Cfb.
C climates are simply climates that stay warmer than OC during winter, and may or may not, exceed 22C in summer, and further divided by rainfall pattern, that roughly coincides with their geographic position in relation to the warm season semi permanent high pressure zones. That's all there is to it really. There's a huge range of how climates would feel within those very broad parameters.
How would you classify this extremely rainy winter/hot dry summer climate? Which actually was my first dream climate way back when I started coming here.
And another thing how can you say Bergen is semi-arid compared to Tillamook? They both have almost the same amount of rain.
It'd say it's wet and dry subtropical due to the wet season being more sustained than in a mediterranean climate.
Well Bergen has lower rain for all periods except summer but it was meant as a bit of a joke
Antalya? Well with 263 mm rainfall in December (that's obscene) it also becomes a wet and dry subtropical climate, although again, there could be a case made for Csa due to the very dry summers. Maybe 1000 mm is a bit too low. Although again, I'd like to introduce wet and dry climates to both oceanic and subtropical, since there clearly are some climates that do not fall into the mediterranean stereotype given that it rains like hell all winter as opposed to some heavy showers and moderate amounts. I do feel however that 1000 mm is still much when you have a dry season involved.
Thinking about it, Porto and Braga are probably better off a wet and dry subtropical, whereas A Coruña and Pontevedra are just humid subtropical.
And actually I've read that the low humidity and evapotranspiration is the reason why Tucson is classified as hot desert as opposed to semi-arid or steppe, even though it receives more rainfall than a typical desert climate.
It'd say it's wet and dry subtropical due to the wet season being more sustained than in a mediterranean climate.
Well Bergen has lower rain for all periods except summer but it was meant as a bit of a joke
Antalya? Well with 263 mm rainfall in December (that's obscene) it also becomes a wet and dry subtropical climate, although again, there could be a case made for Csa due to the very dry summers. Maybe 1000 mm is a bit too low. Although again, I'd like to introduce wet and dry climates to both oceanic and subtropical, since there clearly are some climates that do not fall into the mediterranean stereotype given that it rains like hell all winter as opposed to some heavy showers and moderate amounts. I do feel however that 1000 mm is still much when you have a dry season involved.
Thinking about it, Porto and Braga are probably better off a wet and dry subtropical, whereas A Coruña and Pontevedra are just humid subtropical.
And actually I've read that the low humidity and evapotranspiration is the reason why Tucson is classified as hot desert as opposed to semi-arid or steppe, even though it receives more rainfall than a typical desert climate.
Stereotypes don't classify climates.
Mediterranean isn't defined by a stereotype, it's just a climate with wet winters and dry summers. In fact somewhere like Antalya with very wet winters would be even more Mediterranean due to its huge difference between the wet winters and the dry summers. There's no limit to how wet it can be. For example, it would be like saying a monsoon climate no longer has a monsoon when it gets to 20" of rain in the wettest month.
I hope by "wet and dry" subtropical, you mean wet winter and wet summer climates wouldn't be lumped into the same category. Antalya has much different influences than somewhere in China with wet summers. Again, Mediterranean isn't defined by a stereotype so this category wouldn't be needed as all wet winter-dry summer climates with enough difference between the two would be Mediterranean.
Brags and Porto are difinately Mediterranean (Csb) with their wet winters and dry summers. So is a coruna, although the argument could be made that it's inkers are to wet to be Csb (I think we've already debated weather its subtropical or oceanic in another thread).
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I described it as borderline on Wiki, but having said that it was because Köppen is standard there.
