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I've trought that too, I tried to associate the deciduousness with the winter dryness but I've seen that in northeastern Argentina and Uruguay most of trees grows along the rivers, including the classic Humboldt Willlow, which is native from subtropical parts till the highlands of Patagonia, being deciduous in both of course.
Also, the deciduous forests of Patagonia is another totally different world, I even need to talk about it here.
Also, my guess is that Australia and New Zealand lack an great landmass over higher latitudes to keep very cold temperatures for longs periods and this is the reason for trees be evergreen there.
Since the marginal subtropical flora of trees in the rivers of the Pampas (notably Parana's delta) are the southernmost strongholds of the neotropical flora i would bet that the deciduousness there is due to the adaptation of those species pushing the climatic boundaries.
Climate is the main factor behind the development of a given flora, but is not the only one. Also there is the soil and, what i would call, the combination of the geograhic location and the climatic background of that glora. So, circumstances like isolation or a fast climate change play a role in defining a flora (e.g. Pampas grasslands).
If the same species flourish in both areas, it's because the climate allows it -no big mystery there. But there are more differences than you possibly realise.
So that means both southeast QLD and Tasmania have a subtropical climate? Because the vegetation in both places look rather subtropical and virtually identical.
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Looks more like plantation forest around here during winter.
Not sure what your point is though -places get the vegetation their climate allows. How do these photos disprove that?
You implied that vegetation must be consistent with the climate. So how could you have subtropical plants all the way up in the UK and in southern NZ? Doesn't this tell you that climate and vegetation don't always have to conflate?
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If you want to, I guess you can, but it won't give any better understanding on which areas have ecosystems less impacted by cold. In simple terms, the less an ecosystem is impacted by cold, the more subtropical it is -wouldn't you agree?
I do agree. But again, there are places in the broad temperate zone that are subarctic, with others in the same latitude being mild oceanic. So even that zone doesn't give you good perceptive. The most truest and consistent zones, in my opinion, are the tropical and polar zones.
So that means both southeast QLD and Tasmania have a subtropical climate? Because the vegetation in both places look rather subtropical and virtually identical.
As I said, both have subtropical environments, to differing degrees.
They're not identical.
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You implied that vegetation must be consistent with the climate. So how could you have subtropical plants all the way up in the UK and in southern NZ? Doesn't this tell you that climate and vegetation don't always have to conflate?
What subtropical plants in Britain?
Of course vegetation is consistent with climate- or perhaps you have examples of vegetation that grows in a climate that can't support it?
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I do agree. But again, there are places in the broad temperate zone that are subarctic, with others in the same latitude being mild oceanic. So even that zone doesn't give you good perceptive. The most truest and consistent zones, in my opinion, are the tropical and polar zones.
The temperate zone is a geographical zone, not a climatic one
unless you're talking in big generalities, there isn't one group of subtropical vegetation and another group of oceanic or "temperate" vegetation; just plants with different heat tolerances and needs + frost tolerances.
unless you're talking in big generalities, there isn't one group of subtropical vegetation and another group of oceanic or "temperate" vegetation; just plants with different heat tolerances and needs + frost tolerances.
I know. My point was that you can grow subtropical vegetation in climates that are not subtropical (a la, Hobart or Wellington).
I know. My point was that you can grow subtropical vegetation in climates that are not subtropical (a la, Hobart or Wellington).
You're not making the proper distinction between a climate classification, and a climate. Classifications are a construct, with very wide parameters, and that attempts to group climates according to cause and effect. The climates aren't the same within classifications, they only share certain similarities.
Climate is real, in that it has real world consequences. Subtropical environments will have plant and animal species distribution which show a higher level of commonality with the tropics, than the other temperate climates. While plant and animal species show physical adaptations that respond to higher levels of winter warmth -winter flowering, spring deciduousness slowing down of growth during the warm season. These are subtropical in that the are transitional between tropical environments, and temperate climates with colder winters.
So can cool oceanic climates harbour subtropical plants? Differing degree or not, subtropical is subtropical.
Sure, and they can also grow many desert plants, Mediterranean plants and cold temperate plants -plants don't do climate classification, only climate.
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My scrubby Kent example clearly showcased that subtropical plants can grow in cool oceanic climates.
Of course, plants can only grow in climates that allow them too.
The oaks aren't subtropical, and while the pine trees are Mediterranean, they aren't native to Britain, and certainly don't resemble a Mediterranean environment.
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Perhaps, but can the subtropical zone also exist as a geographical zone?
The Tropics are defined by the tropics-the furthest points at which the sun can be directly overhead.
The Arctic and Antarctic circles are defined by 24 hour day/night, while the temperate zone is everything in between.
The subtropics don't have absolute physical parameters.
Some species of eucalyptus, holm oak, mimosa, laurel, stone/maritime pines and a few other species are found in the wild in the UK.
Fennel, rosemary, broom, spurge, reseda are all common Med species as well.
Most plant species in the UK are not native; most in the SE originate from the Balkans, the Mediterranean, or Asia.
Last edited by B87; 11-28-2017 at 05:23 AM..
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