How many hours of sun a year would you like best? (snowy, ice)

[§AB]

Originally Posted by koyaanisqatsi1

SSTs has nothing to do with it! It's purely latitude and location that plays big roles in each city's climates with the GDR in between having a big influence too.

Oh my god you can't seriously believe that.

SSt's off Sydney are in the 22-25C range, while the SSTs around Melbourne are lucky to reach 20C. That DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE to temps, especially overnight lows. And it makes a much bigger difference than 3 measly degrees of latitude.

[RichardW]

Yes to say SST's do not factor into a place's climate is totally idiotic, for example how does the UK get its (relatively) mild winters considering its latitude if not for the warm subtropical gulfstream currents of the atlantic, without which it would freeze up like central Russia?

Also, it's clearly apparent that places like Coastal California are kept cool for their latitude by cold SST's in the east Pacific. You do read some right rubbish on here.

[ColdCanadian]

Originally Posted by §AB

Oh my god you can't seriously believe that.

SSt's off Sydney are in the 22-25C range, while the SSTs around Melbourne are lucky to reach 20C. That DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE to temps, especially overnight lows. And it makes a much bigger difference than 3 measly degrees of latitude.

Maybe it was an honest mistake?

Imho,
if Sydney was just warmer than Melbourne because of latitude,
then its average diurnal temperature difference would be similar throughout the year,
and its summer highs would almost as warmer as their winters are.
Why?
Both Melbourne and Sydney have large "Bays."
Both Melbourne and Syndey have coastal locations with mountains nearby.
Both Melbourne and Syndey have sizeable "Heat-Islands"; making comparison easier.

Brisbane vs. Sydney?
Now there's a classic example of latitude being the main difference.
If anything, Brisbane is slightly-cooler for its latitude so the difference is less.

[koyaanisqatsi1]

I was thinking more in terms of trade winds - summer easterlies bring warm/humid conditions to Sydney, much less so to Victoria due to the influence of the GDR but not always, there've been times when its been humid in Melbourne in a E-NE airflow. In winter, conditions are reversed, the GDR can increase temps in a W airflow (fohn effect) by 10 - 15 oC over Sydney (with very low humidity) as well as bring plentiful days or even weeks of clear and sunny skies. I recall a day June day when I left Melbourne in 14oC conditions & arrived in Sydney to 22 - 23oC temperatures.

Sydney is not built on a "large" bay like Melbourne but on an narrowing (heading inland) harbour. Melbourne is far more flatter than Sydney, we are bordered by the mountains to the west, hills to the N (particularly so) and S and ocean to the east. In Melbourne, hills to the E & W especially more for the former.

I live right on the coast and work in the city, on many summer days, I've felt cooler at home but hot and humid in the city. Late summer (usually last half of Jan through to mid March) is when it gets quite humid in my area due to the wind dropping rapidly around late evening. It's usually, but not always, a relief to get home on the coast at the end of the working day in the city. Tall skyscrapers surrounding the workplace does block the wind and make it feel much hotter than it actually is. Humidity is torrid enough. Minimums are usually higher by 2 - 3oC in the city compared to my home suburb.

Also there is a 4 degree difference in latitude between those two cities which is significant enough in my eyes. (SYD-MEL 860 - 875 km apart)

There was a swim meet at Mosman (Sydney) during the World Majors recently, got cancelled because the sea temp was too low (13oC). If it had got over 18oC - would be allowed to proceed.

Funnily enough, many people tend to think of Sydney as having similar (not significantly so, mind you) weather/temperatures to Brisbane. It's been said by the year 2050 Sydney will have Brisbane's climate. At the moment Sydney's classified as being humid temperate with sub - tropical summers.

[Trimac20]

Originally Posted by ColdCanadian

Well some parts of Oz, 3-5 degrees latitude doesn't make much difference in climate.
Like Oz's west coast, north of Perth but south of Shark Bay... it's very similar considering the differences in latitude.
Same could be said about most of Australia's Red Centre.

Location, as in blocking effects from the Dividing Range? I could see that playing a big factor.
This blocking factor would explain why Canberra's summer averages are warmer than Melbourne's,
even though Canberra's winters are much colder.

Canberra is about 150km inland too, of course. I wouldn't see any good reason why summers should be cooler there than Melbourne.

[Trimac20]

The water off both Sydney and Melbourne are pretty 'average' for their location. Off Sydney you have the EAC (East Australian Current) is partly contributes to its muggy, cloudy summers. Melbourne is a different kettle of fish. Summer rainfall either comes from convection or the northern edge of the cold fronts that brush up to about 33-34'S in southern Australia about once or twice a week in the summer. Melbourne's changeability is because of it's location; it fronts Port Philip Bay and the Bass strait as well as being exposed to northwestern Victoria which can get scorching hot.

The water off Perth is on the cool side so summers there actually on average aren't too bad, especially with the breeze.

[§AB]

What I don't get, is that Port Phillips SST's get to 22-23C in summer, yet nights still manage to be cold at around 13-16C typically and humidity low. I'm guessing the bay is not large enough to have any real effect?

I wonder what the overnight lows would be on a thermometer sitting out in the bay on a Bouy.

[ColdCanadian]

Originally Posted by Trimac20

Canberra is about 150km inland too, of course. I wouldn't see any good reason why summers should be cooler there than Melbourne.

I thought if altitude is what made it colder in winter,
altitude would at least equilize their summer averages.

[DewDropInn]

I live near Phoenix so I guess I'm getting the 4,000. And I could do with a little less because in the summer there is a real glare to it. Of course nobody notices the glare because it's also 115 degrees out there.

Thank Goodness we can tint our car windows.

[ColdCanadian]

Originally Posted by koyaanisqatsi1

I was thinking more in terms of trade winds - summer easterlies bring warm/humid conditions to Sydney, much less so to Victoria due to the influence of the GDR but not always, there've been times when its been humid in Melbourne in a E-NE airflow. In winter, conditions are reversed, the GDR can increase temps in a W airflow (fohn effect) by 10 - 15 oC over Sydney (with very low humidity) as well as bring plentiful days or even weeks of clear and sunny skies. I recall a day June day when I left Melbourne in 14oC conditions & arrived in Sydney to 22 - 23oC temperatures.

Sydney is not built on a "large" bay like Melbourne but on an narrowing (heading inland) harbour. Melbourne is far more flatter than Sydney, we are bordered by the mountains to the west, hills to the N (particularly so) and S and ocean to the east. In Melbourne, hills to the E & W especially more for the former.

I live right on the coast and work in the city, on many summer days, I've felt cooler at home but hot and humid in the city. Late summer (usually last half of Jan through to mid March) is when it gets quite humid in my area due to the wind dropping rapidly around late evening. It's usually, but not always, a relief to get home on the coast at the end of the working day in the city. Tall skyscrapers surrounding the workplace does block the wind and make it feel much hotter than it actually is. Humidity is torrid enough. Minimums are usually higher by 2 - 3oC in the city compared to my home suburb.

Also there is a 4 degree difference in latitude between those two cities which is significant enough in my eyes. (SYD-MEL 860 - 875 km apart)

There was a swim meet at Mosman (Sydney) during the World Majors recently, got cancelled because the sea temp was too low (13oC). If it had got over 18oC - would be allowed to proceed.

Interesting read.

Funnily enough, many people tend to think of Sydney as having similar (not significantly so, mind you) weather/temperatures to Brisbane. It's been said by the year 2050 Sydney will have Brisbane's climate. At the moment Sydney's classified as being humid temperate with sub - tropical summers.

If that's true,
then Australian's have a funny way of distinguishing between "temperate" and "subtropical."

My definitions:
Sub-tropical Winters: no monthly-means below 10 C (even Adelaide has this)
Sub-tropical Summers: at least one monthly-mean of 24+ C. (Perth and Brisbane for sure)

So I would say in a place like Syndey Airport or Olympic Park,
"...Sydney has classic, sub-tropical winters with temperate but humid summers..."

I would describe Brisbane like this:
"...Semi-tropical winters (lacking a distinct-coolness) with moderately sub-tropical summers..."