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Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei
The Mediterranean itself is (at least central Italy) is fairly humid in the summer. Perhaps not quite to the extent a truly Cfa climate would be, but definitely more than anywhere in California. Rome looks like it has dew points in the low to mid 60s in the summer.
In some ways, some of the Mediterranean seems like the least Mediterranean of all the Mediterranean climates.
Yes humidity in summer in the Mediterranean can be surprisingly high, particularly the Eastern Mediterranean. While July is virtually rainless in places like Tel Aviv or Athens, humidity can often average into the 60s making it rather oppressive. For a coastal city at a relatively high latitude, Athens summers are distinctly hot and somewhat humid. I think ocean warmth has something to do with it, since most other Med climates are characterised by relatively cool oceans with frequent onshore winds. Also, the Sahara is blocked by the Mediterranean, so those super dry winds pick up moisture before reaching places like Italy or Greece. Climatically coastal California is another world to inland Cal. Places like Long Beach or Monterrey actually remain pretty humid and somewhat cloudy in early summer (the June gloom).
That's a possibility since they use this instrument to measure 'bright' sunshine, although I'm not sure how long sunshine has been measured at the regional office site. The new RO site is now at Mount Lawley. I'm inclined to trust those figures, partly because Perth was actually quite a bit wetter and cloudier during most of the 20th century than in the past 10-15 years. The 2000s was by far the driest decade on record (I think with 8 of the driest years ever) which is why you shouldn't rely on the Airport's figures. Although that level of sunshine is probably more representatitve of the drought conditions we get these days, which is an aberration from the long term historical records. Perhaps it is a foretaste of the climatic conditions we can expect in coming years. In that case Perth will have a climate closer to somewhere like Geraldton.
But having studied other Mediterranean climates and compared stats like rainfall and no. cloudy/clear days, Perth is probably at the middle to low end of bright sunshine for a Med climate (the 2500-3000 hour range), compared to cities such as Los Angeles or Athens. That is largely because these cities have fairly sunny winters, and Perth's summers are note completely dry. Perth's winters are sunnier than they seem, largely because cold fronts are short and brief and anti-cyclonic high pressure can and often dominates for long periods any time of year. In fact I sometimes think of Perth's climate as virtually arid and dry, tempered by westerly cold fronts. Cloud usually brings rain, more often than not, and Perth is unusual in having more raindays than cloudy days, hence the frequent phenomenon of 'sun showers' and days that are mostly sunny but are broken by a brief, heavy downpour that quickly dissipates.
I think you are getting a foretaste of the future. The poleward retreat of the southern jetstream is well documented, with an accompanying decrease in rainfall in both the SW and SE of Australia. This would seem to correlate with higher sunshine.
I do take your point that Perth is at the low end of Mediterranean regimes for sunshine - I could tolerate it pretty well though!
No doubt your 100% right…climatic lines drawn on a map represent a gradual transition zone from one type of climate to another…they are not a etched in stone lines. The map (above) of the climate zones is only a general guide.
What always impresses me (and is a credit to people like Trewartha/Koppen) is when I read comments from people who have had the opportunity to live long enough in several different climate zones…and they can see/feel/sense the differences in climate groups/types. A good example is when you say “ My thoughts on the 4 cities is based on day to day weather conditions, rather than temps though”. Genetic footprints in each climate zone are so strong, that one can still sense a difference (a feel) in climate groups when temperatures (the most sensible of ALL weather elements!) is discounted. I love when that happens, when the climate zones make real world sense
It makes sense that Auckland and Sydney both tend to get heavier rain, feel muggy and stay a bit lusher-relatively speaking: They should - the genetics of all Cf climates (whether Auckland, Sydney, San Paulo, Charleston, New Orleans…etc), is such that at least part of the year will have a pattern of a tropical flow of warm/humid/high dew point air and bouts of heavy rain. The same is true of how Christchurch and Melbourne seem to “feel” the same way to you: It makes sense, the genetics of Christchurch and Melbourne (or London, Seattle, ...etc) is such that they tend to have the typical changeable weather/pressure gradients/sensible temps typical of temperate climates much of the year.
Yesterdays weather here got me thinking about "genetics" of weather. A series of cold fronts has been moving over the country for a few days, bringing rain, hail, snow and very changeable conditions. Places can have the same genetics, but the weather they get as a result can vary a lot. When the cold bands( 4 times) moved through here yesterday, we were getting towering cummuls about to a about 30 000ft, muggy conditions,and calm, followed by a quick change to snow cloud, a drop in humidity,and cold wind. It was a shirts on/shirts off sort of a day. It could feel like Auckland or Chch at any point during the day. This is fairly typical of cold fronts here.
Here is technically subtropical according to Trewartha (I still can't get used to the idea), but the genetics are firmly mid latitude westerly air flow. At the same time, the look a great deal of the time, including winter, is convective. So in short, weather can vary greatly even if the causes are the same.
I don't care for your anti-Auckland opinion - all I care about is that the facts is put out for her/him & all and sundry to see at all - ...
Assuming you are referring to my earlier remark, it is not "anti" anything - just a statement of statistical reality. It could well turn out that Auckland's average gets elevated again over the period of the current PDO phase - and then again it may not. There's not enough data from a single site to hazard a good guess.
OK here are some facts -for people who like bandying about a lot of opinions yet knowing nothing! Statistics do not give a very accurate picture of what it actually FEELS like to live somewhere.
I have lived in Auckland, Wellington and Vancouver.
Visited Perth, ONCE-when I was there they were at the end of a 13 month drought. No rain for over a year. So they can be dry. Very very hot in summer/autumn. Easily the best climate sunshine and temp wise.
Wellington - Windy -average day= gusts of 50km to 60km. High winds of 100kmph are not uncommon (every three weeks or so, more frequent winter) There is always a breeze -even on a nice day.
Rain/cloud autumn and spring see the highest rainfall. Winters are fairly dry with rain/cloudy weather systems only hanging around for two or three days on average. Heavy rain all in one day or a 36 hour period is normal.
Very little drizzle or lingering cloud (thanks to the wind) lots of blue sky and sun throughout the year. Warm 6 months/cold 6 months. Average daily high in winter 10 degrees to 13 (but with the windchill you subtract 5 degrees).
Auckland. Very humid in summer, average highs 25 degrees. Frosts uncommon and mild. Sea breezes. Winter, spring and autumn are very wet and weather systems tend to linger longer. Average temps in winter are in the mid teens 14 to 17. Summers are long but can be wet. Lots of sun either way. Almost a tropical rainforest sort of climate.
Vancouver - is the dud climate. Long lingering cloudy weather systems, in the spring and fall, mean that the days are short, damp and see little sun. Rain in the months of november through to june can last for 20 days without let up.
Summer lasts from july through to october - very little rain, hot temps (30+ in the valley) and long days. Winter average high 4 degrees with a low of -1 or -2. Normally you can bet on a foot of snow falling at some point.
So sum up vancouver = 4 months of the best summer weather to be had. 8 months of darkness, rain, cloud, snow and frosts. No wind at all. Winds of 60 kmph normally do minor damage to fences and trees -so nothing like wellington.
OK here are some facts -for people who like bandying about a lot of opinions yet knowing nothing! Statistics do not give a very accurate picture of what it actually FEELS like to live somewhere.
I have lived in Auckland, Wellington and Vancouver.
Visited Perth, ONCE-when I was there they were at the end of a 13 month drought. No rain for over a year. So they can be dry. Very very hot in summer/autumn. Easily the best climate sunshine and temp wise.
Wellington - Windy -average day= gusts of 50km to 60km. High winds of 100kmph are not uncommon (every three weeks or so, more frequent winter) There is always a breeze -even on a nice day.
Rain/cloud autumn and spring see the highest rainfall. Winters are fairly dry with rain/cloudy weather systems only hanging around for two or three days on average. Heavy rain all in one day or a 36 hour period is normal.
Very little drizzle or lingering cloud (thanks to the wind) lots of blue sky and sun throughout the year. Warm 6 months/cold 6 months. Average daily high in winter 10 degrees to 13 (but with the windchill you subtract 5 degrees).
Auckland. Very humid in summer, average highs 25 degrees. Frosts uncommon and mild. Sea breezes. Winter, spring and autumn are very wet and weather systems tend to linger longer. Average temps in winter are in the mid teens 14 to 17. Summers are long but can be wet. Lots of sun either way. Almost a tropical rainforest sort of climate.
Vancouver - is the dud climate. Long lingering cloudy weather systems, in the spring and fall, mean that the days are short, damp and see little sun. Rain in the months of november through to june can last for 20 days without let up.
Summer lasts from july through to october - very little rain, hot temps (30+ in the valley) and long days. Winter average high 4 degrees with a low of -1 or -2. Normally you can bet on a foot of snow falling at some point.
So sum up vancouver = 4 months of the best summer weather to be had. 8 months of darkness, rain, cloud, snow and frosts. No wind at all. Winds of 60 kmph normally do minor damage to fences and trees -so nothing like wellington.
You are wrong about mean rainfalls for Wellington. It is in one of the relatively few regions of NZ which has a simple very summer min - winter max rainfall mean - driest in January, wettest in July, autumn and spring intermediate values. No kinks in the monthly rainfall plot. Precip. days are proportionate. In NZ where seasonal values can fluctuate a lot, a handful of years of sampling establishes little when it comes to rainfall. If you had spent December 2010 & 2011 in the Nelson region you'd conclude it was the wettest time of the year - it isn't.
OK here are some facts -for people who like bandying about a lot of opinions yet knowing nothing! Statistics do not give a very accurate picture of what it actually FEELS like to live somewhere.
I have lived in Auckland, Wellington and Vancouver.
Visited Perth, ONCE-when I was there they were at the end of a 13 month drought. No rain for over a year. So they can be dry. Very very hot in summer/autumn. Easily the best climate sunshine and temp wise.
Wellington - Windy -average day= gusts of 50km to 60km. High winds of 100kmph are not uncommon (every three weeks or so, more frequent winter) There is always a breeze -even on a nice day.
Rain/cloud autumn and spring see the highest rainfall. Winters are fairly dry with rain/cloudy weather systems only hanging around for two or three days on average. Heavy rain all in one day or a 36 hour period is normal.
Very little drizzle or lingering cloud (thanks to the wind) lots of blue sky and sun throughout the year. Warm 6 months/cold 6 months. Average daily high in winter 10 degrees to 13 (but with the windchill you subtract 5 degrees).
Auckland. Very humid in summer, average highs 25 degrees. Frosts uncommon and mild. Sea breezes. Winter, spring and autumn are very wet and weather systems tend to linger longer. Average temps in winter are in the mid teens 14 to 17. Summers are long but can be wet. Lots of sun either way. Almost a tropical rainforest sort of climate.
Vancouver - is the dud climate. Long lingering cloudy weather systems, in the spring and fall, mean that the days are short, damp and see little sun. Rain in the months of november through to june can last for 20 days without let up.
Summer lasts from july through to october - very little rain, hot temps (30+ in the valley) and long days. [b]Winter average high 4 degrees with a low of -1 or -2. Normally you can bet on a foot of snow falling at some point.
So sum up vancouver = 4 months of the best summer weather to be had. 8 months of darkness, rain, cloud, snow and frosts. No wind at all. Winds of 60 kmph normally do minor damage to fences and trees -so nothing like wellington.
The 8 months of darkness, rain, cloud, snow and frosts is a bit of exaggeration. We don't get that many frosts especially downtown. Last year only had 11 frosts in downtown Vancouver and 35 at the airport and it is sunny from time to time during November-June such as today
Also it's worth noting that the PNW has had terrible spring weather the last few years--cold, cloudy, and rainy right until July 4, and that may have skewed people's perceptions as to what typical weather is like here. Actually our (Vancouver's/Seattle's/Portland's) climate is quite mild all in all and even our rain and cloudiness isn't all that extreme compared to many other parts of the world.
Perth. The rest all suck, are cloudy and have anemic part time summers that feel like early spring on 6 days out of every 7.
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