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Old 04-22-2012, 11:05 PM
 
Location: Victoria,BC
129 posts, read 94,827 times
Reputation: 101
How bout there's a cool summer humid subtropical because Mediterranean has csa and csb they should switch oceanic to something else and make cfb or cwb a coool winter humid subtropical.

 
Old 04-23-2012, 04:45 AM
 
Location: Laurentia
5,072 posts, read 2,644,315 times
Reputation: 1794
There is a cool-summer humid subtropical climate - It's Koeppen type is Cfb, which happens to be described as the classic maritime climate. Cfb is temperate, not subtropical, and since subtropical necessitates hot summers, I do not agree with your proposal.
 
Old 04-23-2012, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Victoria,BC
129 posts, read 94,827 times
Reputation: 101
how bout a cool winter?
 
Old 06-06-2012, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Northeast US
100 posts, read 37,883 times
Reputation: 95
I think 'subtropical' is a huge category. Many people in this thread seem to get confused by the name. When they read 'subTROPICAL' they immediately think of the classic hot, humid climate of the tropics and think that subtropical should be close to that. In reality, I think Koppen merely intended the 'subtropical' category to include all areas that are somehow more-than-temperate but nottropical. At its northern/coolest boundary, this "subtropical" category abuts temperate zones, hence places like New York counting as subtropical and causing people to scratch their heads. New York is nothing like Tampa, because Tampa is at the southern end of the subtropical scale, very near tropical itself, while New York adjoins temperate-climate zones. These are very broad categories (just as "temperate" is rather broad, encompassing everything from northern New York State to north-central Alberta or Saskatchewan - a huge, huge range).
 
Old 06-06-2012, 03:01 PM
 
4,480 posts, read 1,547,893 times
Reputation: 1296
In my opinion, I would classify subtropical as average lows above 5c in the coldest month. With < 3 days per year with lows below 0c.

Then for tropical, I would say average lows in coldest month above 17c. With average of 1 day per year with a low ≤ 10c.

Any others agree on this concept?
 
Old 06-06-2012, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
5,735 posts, read 2,749,459 times
Reputation: 3029
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superduy View Post
In my opinion, I would classify subtropical as average lows above 5c in the coldest month. With < 3 days per year with lows below 0c.

Then for tropical, I would say average lows in coldest month above 17c. With average of 1 day per year with a low ≤ 10c.

Any others agree on this concept?
The temp thresholds seem reasonable, however, having so few frost days limits many locations like for example Daytona Beach, FL (4 frost days per year). What would you consider Daytona Beach, Warm Continental? Daytona avg January temps are 69F on the high, and 47F on the low. Seems subtropical to me. Tons of subtropical foliage there including oranges.
 
Old 06-06-2012, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
5,735 posts, read 2,749,459 times
Reputation: 3029
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superduy View Post
In my opinion, I would classify subtropical as average lows above 5c in the coldest month. With < 3 days per year with lows below 0c.

Then for tropical, I would say average lows in coldest month above 17c. With average of 1 day per year with a low ≤ 10c.

Any others agree on this concept?
According to your criteria Isles of Scilly with avg Jan high of 48F and low of 43F is subtropical (2 frosts per year) and Daytona Beach is not. That is where your criteria loses it for me. You only focus on frost and not warmth. Subtropical means warm to me, not absence of frost. I'd rather spend any winter day in Daytona with a sky high winter sun compared to latitude 50, and temps in the upper 60's than a 40's damp, cloudy day in Scilly.
 
Old 06-06-2012, 11:38 PM
 
Location: Top of the South (Nelson), NZ
6,942 posts, read 3,255,564 times
Reputation: 2414
There doesn't seem to be any summer heat requirements from climatologists, other than humid subtropical. Winter warmth makes sense to me as the most important defining feature of a subtropical climate. It is winter warmth that enables a place to have vegetation closer to tropical types, rather than summer heat. Vegetation is an important defining feature because of the geographical aspect of the term subtropical.

If subtropics are said to be transitional, nothing would show that transition the way the vegetation does.

Last edited by Joe90; 06-06-2012 at 11:52 PM..
 
Old 06-06-2012, 11:54 PM
 
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
4,964 posts, read 3,251,402 times
Reputation: 3067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superduy View Post
In my opinion, I would classify subtropical as average lows above 5c in the coldest month. With < 3 days per year with lows below 0c.

Then for tropical, I would say average lows in coldest month above 17c. With average of 1 day per year with a low ≤ 10c.

Any others agree on this concept?

According to your classifiaction, New York wouldnt be considered subtropical at all (the winter is much colder than that). Buenos Aires would be considered subtropical (as it is now) with the coldest average low in the coldest month (July) being 7.4c. I dont know what the frost data is in BA, but i gotta say its rare, specially in the city itself (i have had plants for ever and never had any frost in them), so the >3 would apply, i think.

I think with your classification a lot of cities will be left out, not only new york, but i kinda agree with it, it seems more accurate to describe what you think when you hear the word "subtropical".
 
Old 06-07-2012, 12:07 AM
 
Location: Dalby, Queensland
473 posts, read 221,001 times
Reputation: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superduy View Post
In my opinion, I would classify subtropical as average lows above 5c in the coldest month. With < 3 days per year with lows below 0c.

Then for tropical, I would say average lows in coldest month above 17c. With average of 1 day per year with a low ≤ 10c.

Any others agree on this concept?
With that definition, inland southern Queensland would be too cold to be considered subtropical because average lows in July are about 4C, with around 15 lows below 0C. Yet some parts of Tasmania right on the coast could be considered subtropical because the average low is higher than 5C!
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